Reaction from the two Illini players taken in the second round of the NBA Draft Wednesday night was both predictable and true to their individual personalities.
Dee Brown was emotional and through his brief answers on a teleconference he said he was blessed, admitted to being a little hurt at having slid so far into the second round and vowed to do what he does best: Be Dee Brown. Ever the competitor, he said, of course he felt he should have been taken in the first round, of course he felt he was the best point guard in the draft. And, of course he was thrilled to be joining former Illini Deron Williams with the Utah Jazz. “Deron is like a brother,” Dee said.
James Augustine, on the other hand, was only half watching the draft. He was busy playing X-Box video games while the draft was going. He was OK with the pick (No. 41 overall), OK with the team (Orlando Magic) and OK with the whole thing. “I really wasn’t that nervous,” he said. Quiet, willing to lurk in the background, understated. That’s Augustine.
Ironically, the draft coverage wasn’t even on TV when Augustine was taken. ESPN was in a commercial break when Augustine’s name went up on the sceen. The irony of that was not lost on Illini coach Bruce Weber, who watched the draft with the current Illini team. “Just like James,” Weber said. “It happened quietly.”
Weber admitted he would have liked a little more focus on the Illini program by ESPN’s draft coverage team, but that Augustine slipped through the coversational cracks when he was taken during the commercial. “It would have been nice to get a little more hype,” Weber said. “But we’re happy for both of them.”
It’s been an intense three months for Brown and Augustine. They worked out for 15-to-19 teams each and near the end, Augustine admitted he was feeling a little run down. But both of them ultimately accomplished what they hoped for — they were drafted, they have a chance to land on an NBA roster and they don’t have to endure questions about sliding all the way through the two-round draft into free agent status.
Dee’s journey with the Jazz will be interesting. When Deron was in town last weekend for Andre Iguodala’s benefit basketball game, Weber said he told him the Jazz were in the market for a shooting guard. Dee spent his entire senior season trying to showcase himself at the point. Maybe Utah is comfortable it addressed its shooting guard needs with Arkansas’ Ronnie Brewer. So maybe the Jazz figures they have room for two point guards, or it simply liked the way Deron and Dee operated together. I know this: Dee looked much more comfortable shooting the ball when Deron was setting him up. The problem with with having both of them on the floor at the same time is that one of them must defend the other team’s shooting guard, many of whom are 6-6 to 6-8 or taller. Whatever, at least Dee gets a chance with a good, old-school coach (Jerry Sloan), who appreciates the kind of hard work and team play Dee will show.
James has going for him what James always has had: a nice combination of size, speed, agility, hands and work ethic. Plus he has the possibility for a very good upside as he fills out and adds some muscle. His ability to shoot the ball from the perimeter will be a key factor and if he gains confidence and consistency in that area, he has a chance to enjoy a long career in the league, even as a complementary player who bounces in off the bench.
That said, there are no guarantees if you’re not taken in the first round. No comfort zone. No “room to grow” assurances. No safety net. Just a chance, and for now, that has to be enough.
By the way, I loved the Bulls’ draft. I think GM John Paxson continues to show that he’s one of the shrewdest young GMs in the NBA. He snookered Portland into making the trade in the first round to get Tyrus Thomas of LSU, then traded up to get Thabo Sefolosha, who played in Switzerland. Thomas is a freakish athlete who could end up being a monster player. Sefolosha, by all accounts, has great shooting range and plays dogged defense. Both, it seems, should be good fits with the hard-driving, defensive-minded coach, Scott Skiles. The Bulls are headed in the right direction.
Hopefully, so are Dee and James. Congratulations and good luck to both of them.
June 29th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Congratulations to Dee & James on getting drafted & good luck to both of them. Of course Illinois didn’t get much hype from ESPN….what else could we expect?
June 29th, 2006 at 9:58 am
Congrats to Dee and James and i was upset that James didnt get his named mention. Oh well, atleast he was drafted. The Bulls did get some good athletes, but that is not what they needed. They really need low post presence. I know Thomas can block shots, but with Curry gone, you are left with Chandler (terrible) and Thomas (rookie). The Bulls are turning into the Knicks because they have good players, but they all play the same position: Kirk, Gordon, Deng, Duhon, Andres, and Sefolosha…how are they all going to get adqueate PT?
June 29th, 2006 at 10:55 am
I’m sad for Dee he may not even get a chance. Utah has until this Friday to sign Mcleod. If they do Dee is either in the D. league or released. Jerry Sloan likes veterans not rookies. Augie looks like he has a real chance. I think the Bulls draft really stinks Thomas is way over hyped. I just do not buy him being able to play power forward at 6′7″ they throw Chandler around like a rag doll. I hope he has some kind of shot because if he doesnt they won’t even guard him. I know nothing about thabo so I’ll wait until I see him. The other guy is a stiff and they already have a bench full of them. I hope they do better in free agency.
June 29th, 2006 at 10:57 am
Congratulations to Augie and Dee! I was very encouraged to hear the announcers say “normally if you rebound at a high rate in college, you rebound at a high rate in the NBA as well.” If this is true for Augie, hes gonna be a solid 4 man someday in the NBA.
As for Dee, I love that hes playing w/Deron, and I love that hes playing for Sloan, but the only way Dee will like this situation is if he can see some playing time. Can you guys imagine Dee on the bench for a significant amount of time? The guy would go nuts! I hope they both work hard and earn spots on the Jazz and Magic.
June 29th, 2006 at 11:04 am
Congratulations to Dee & James. Two guys who helped put Illinois on the national scene for college basketball. I think James will stick in Orlando, they are lacking for forward. Dee may have a tougher time in Utah if Utah signs a veteran PG to back up Deron Williams. It’ll be fun to see Deron & Dee playing together again in summer league. I think ESPN televises some summer league games.
June 29th, 2006 at 11:24 am
I thought that James possibly could have gone a little higher, but so be it and he could have a fairly lengthy stay with Orlando….Regarding the Bulls, I liked what they did and feel that if they can land a center in free agency, they should be in good shape. I think they can bring Thomas along slowly and Sefolosha should give them immediate help defensively and free up Kirk and Ben offensively.
June 29th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Congrats to both men. I am sure they will carry their hard work ethics over to the NBA and I wish them well.
June 29th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
I’m happy for the kids. They didn’t get the good ole guaranteed contract the first rounders did, but they got picked by teams that wanted them for a reason. They have a chance and that’s all you can ask for sometimes. Let’s hear it for Jerry Sloan and the Utah management. They have chosen two Illini guys in their four picks the last two years. Seems they like our kids and system to this point. We’ve heard Dee’s feelings, has anyone heard how Deron feels about all this? My guess is he’s lovin’ it. Goin’ against each other in practice and on their own time. I’d pay bucks to watch that. I bet there’ll be some good natured smack talk goin’ down, don’t ya think? I believe Augie’s in the right place. The Magic are young and getting better. James could be a great sub for them. Like Dee, he may never be a starter, but a really good guy to have coming off the bench for ya. Lot’s of energy and fire with a good understanding of the game. Both just need a little baptism under the gun is all. Hope they can make it. Let’s see, our 2004-05 NCAA runners-up: 2 NBA first rounders, one a lottery pick; 2 NBA second rounders; 1 minor league all-star and record setter(Roger). Not a bad first five, y’all. No wonder they went 37-2, with the help of a some good of bench guys and some fine coaching as well. Good luck to them all. GO ILLINI!!
June 29th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
Notice in the NBA draft:
1) Typically, 9 of 25 top H.S. players come from Big Ten states (ex PA), but no Big Ten players were drafted until below 29 or so.
2) UConn, Villanova, Kentucky, Arkansas, UCLA, Memphis and some other “power” teams were wiped out by the draft, but not Florida or any Big Ten teams.
3) Bill Self escaped unscathed.
4) Roy Williams’ and Kruskjeski’s “whitebread”
strategy protected them from a wipeout like last year. Look for more of this from them.
June 29th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
Congratulations to Dee and Augie. Am I disappointed that they went so low? Sure. On the other hand these two are sure bets to exceed expectations. They will also be great for our program. Imagine: every time Dee and Deron have a good game, Illinois will be featured in the post game commentary. That is a plus for our program. Now I have one problem: when the Jazz play the Bulls, who do I root for?
June 29th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
illiwis #9: you mean Krzyzewski?
June 29th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
Am I totally crazy to think that Utah, with 2 consecutive picks, and if James was still on the board, would have taken Dee and James back-to-back? Their second pick was a guy known for rebounding. Sounds like a fit for James there. I will definitely take more of an interest in the NBA next season, but just think what could have been to have 3 of the best Illini ever on the same team!!!
June 29th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Not to rain on everyone’s parade, because Dee Brown has been a great representative and ambassador for Illinois basketball. But any one with knowledge of the draft knows mid second round draft choices only make their team about 20% of the time. Dee would have had a much better chance if he had been drafted by an up-tempo fast breaking team like Phoenix or Seattle as opposed to the disciplined half court UCLA High Post offense of Utah first run by Sloan’ coach with the Bulls, Dick Motta. So to those of you who think its a “lock” that Dee will make the Jazz, I hope you are right, but history says he won’t. Augie has a much better chance of sticking with Orlando.
June 29th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Gerry T: I know, like most people here, you are probably right about Dee, man. Like I said at least he’s been given a chance and that’s all you can ask for sometimes. If he doesn’t make it, there are a world of things Dee could do. He’s a smart kid with a good education and a hard worker. He’s got a great attitude. Of course, he’d be disappointed and may pout for awhile, but in the end he’d realize it just wasn’t meant to be and he’d move on with his life. He probably could get a job just about anywhere doing anything in the state of Illinois and maybe anywhere else. Who wouldn’t hire a guy like Dee? He’s great with kids, too. His life will be FAR from over if he’s let go. So, let’s just hope something breaks his way. I’m prepared to accept things either way. Second rounders ALWAYS have it tough. Maybe he could get traded to or picked up by a team more his style, who knows? But for awhile he’ll be with Deron and that can’t be anything but good for them both, even though it may only be for a short time. If he still wants to play, there’s always Europe. Think he’d be a hit over there!? The money ain’t great, but at least he would keep playin’. And I do agree with ya about Augie having the better chance of sticking with the Magic, also.
June 29th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Evan Turner, a “strong illini lean” just committed to the buckeyes….
June 30th, 2006 at 7:39 am
I want another big name recruit just like everyone else but I’m not going to get excited. We have went thru this at least 3 times in the last year and a half. I’m going to put my faith in Weber until he proves me wrong. He better win with the kids he is bringing in cause I know other people are winning with the players we lost.
June 30th, 2006 at 8:51 am
…and another one bites the dust. Wow, I’m becoming desensitized to the ongoing recruiting losses that have mounted year after year. But fellas, this one was suppossed to be a lock. With Turner gone, next goes Rose. Yes, its great to be an Illini Fan.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:15 am
I remember months ago when naysayers on this board said Dee and certainly Augustine didn’t have a prayer in being drafted.
Now, some are saying that Dee should start looking overseas to get play time. Keep it up. That kind of forecast only makes a competitor like Dee more fired up, more likely to succeed.
On a related note, anyone else glad (relieved) that we won’t be facing Michigan State’s Shannon Brown and Maurice Auger again next year? Especially Brown. Seems like he’s been around forever.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Evan Turner to OSU, perhaps because Demetri McCamey just got offered by us on Tuesday?
June 30th, 2006 at 10:42 am
Ok, I starting to become as negative (or maybe as realisitc) as Kentucky Mike! Evan Turner was going to be an Illini. Everyone in his “camp” said he was going, he said he was going…but then, once again, Ohio State swoops in for another great recruiting coup!
Is it time to start investigating OSU’s recruiting methods. Think about it, they have won NOTHING over the last 5 years but somehow they are pulling in recruiting classes equal to the great North Carolina! Something is not right. We know the boosters of OSU have previously given gifts and money to football players (Troy Smith and Maurice Clarett) and basketball players (Croatian kid, can’t remember his name, but the previous coach even gave him money) and they got away with it from the NCAA, so maybe they are just better at paying recruits than we are. And don’t tell me that crooked nosed, receding hair-line coach, Thad Matta, is just such a wonderfully gifted recruiter that he can land 8 top 25 kids over two seasons without winning anything. If they had gone to a Final Four in the last five years, maybe I could believe it. Instead, I’ll call it as I see it…cheating, at the highest level!
I will concede this to the anti-Guenther crowd, if Matta is the sole reason for their recruiting success, why didn’t we hire him instead of Weber. We could have easily gotten him (and maybe all of the recruits he’s brought in) because of his East Central Illinois roots (he’s from Hoopston), but instead Guenther didn’t pull the trigger because Thad hadn’t taken Xavier anywhere in the tourney and Weber had. I still love Weber, and he obviously is a really good X’s and O’s coach, but maybe Guenther missed out on hiring a superstar who is not only good drawing up plays, but is apparently one of the best recruiters in the country! Damn, that is depressing to think about.
If Weber can just land Derrek Rose and E’Twaun Morre, we’ll be ok, but if he doesn’t it will be tough watching OSU beat our brains in over the next couple of seasons!
June 30th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Whiz #17: nowhere at any time did Evan Turner or his handlers ever say he was “a lock” for Illinois.
By the way, you may want to let Derrick Rose (and his big brother handler) know that he has decided against Illinois.
I’m pretty sure they’d like to be in the loop.
And I’m also pretty sure I can speak for most of the rest of us when I say that your sunny outlook and overwhelming optimism really brighten up the old blog.
June 30th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
I’m not throwing up the panic button, fellow opti-bloggers. But I do have a question about recruiting for anyone that might know (and probably people like Ky Mike and X who think they may know):
How do recruiting duties among the Illini coaching staff break down? Is there a tier 1 who says yes/no, a tier 2 that makes contact and initiates interest and a tier 3 that is the ‘closer’? How does it work?
I don’t know who else on the staff besides Weber and McClain even does recruiting…but I’m starting to wonder. Again, I’m not panicking, but 1 of the 3 kids we were pretty ‘in’ on has opted for OSU. And then there were 2. Now instead of a 1/3 we’re looking at a 1/2. We’re still in good shape, but our odds are going in the wrong direction.
The reason I got thinking about it, besides Turner’s turn to OSU, is that if Dee Brown doesn’t make the Jazz, I’ll contribute the first 2500 bucks to the Illini Assistant Coach Dee Brown salary fund (if it’s ok with the NCAA).
I like Wayne and he gives us a good pipeline to Peoria and other talent in the downstate area…but it seems we really need someone who can work some magic from the Chicago area. It’s a concern that gets bigger everyday.
June 30th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Doug O.: I’m NOT a naysayer my friend. (My apologies beforehand to those who have heard this before, but I need to educate Mr. O. about who I am, ok?) What parts of “IF” and “MAYBE” don’t you understand? Read my post again and count ‘em. There ain’t no one on this board that wants Dee to succeed in the NBA anymore than me. NO ONE! And I resent the inclusion of myself with all those negative numbskulls that infect this board. I have been a die hard fan of Illinois sports for 48 years..since my late Dad took me to my first game at Memorial Stadium when I was all of 8years old. I saw Bogie Redmon play basketball in Huff Gym when I was 9 or 10. I got to stand under the bucket and chase loose balls that got away during warm-ups, man! My folks were both U of I grads and huge fans. My mom wrote up bball articles for the Daily Illini and Pop had classes with some of the Whiz Kids. I’ve never known anything but Illini sports. My veins pump orange and blue, ok? If Illinois lost 2,000 consecutive games in football or basketball, I would STILL be rooting for ‘em. It’s all I’ve ever known. And one other thing, I’ve been coming to this blog off and on since DAY 1. Check out all my posts and show me which ones have been negative in nature? I’ll wait. Finally, I have loved Dee ever since he decided to some play for us. I look at him with the love of a father. I think of all these young guys as my adopted “sons”. I want that kid to get what ever it is he wants. And I’d appreciate if you laid off me about being negative. Thank you and now as Brandon once said, back to your regular scheduled blogging. PS- If you find all this hard to believe, ther are people on this board who will back me up, right RPIC Editor Boy?
June 30th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
We got McCamey man that puts us in a much better position no matter what Rose does. If he comes great if he dosen’t we still have a top 50 point guard. Also the first ever from St. Joe., Westchester. Congratulations Coach Weber and your staff. Now grab the kid from Decatur and lets go when a title.
June 30th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
RPIC…I remain an eternal optimist, just caught me at the wrong moment…with that said, this is the one kid (Turner) that I felt could be the Scottie Pippen to E.G.’s HIs Airness…it is very discerning to me that we lost a kid that initially found the idea of being successfull at my alma mater a great opportunity, but yes the big dogs came to play…eventually we must crack the mold…we have to retain the atheletes within our state, especially the ones that have the charisma, attitude, and ability of Turner…I guess theres always football…
June 30th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Brandon #22: I’ve often wondered how recruiting duties break out among the coaching staff too, and it would be a GREAT topic for articles both on the blog and in the newspaper.
How about it, Tupps?
Jeff Irvine #23: you betcha . . . I got yer back on this one.
Just remember that this is only a blog and you shouldn’t take ANYTHING too seriously.
June 30th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
I concur with #24 in that McCamey was a good get. From what I read ge’s a strong guard who’s tough to push off th ball, and he can really pass it. Sounds like someone Wener could use in a 3 guard system. So that takes some of the sting away from losing out on Turner.
Apparently Turner has family in Ohio and he was attracted by all the other big time talent going to Colomus. He was also worried that the Buckeyes were going to give his spot away, thus the sudden commitment. Too bad, bat with McCamey we have a great class without Rose, and if we do land Rose it’s gotta be the best class in Illini history.
#22 I’ve read several players that the Illini have been recruiting say that they really like Jay Price. So it seems quite apparent that he has a rather significant role in the recruiting process and is well liked by prospective recruits.
Anyway, here’s hoping that this isn’t the last big Illini commit that we hear about in the next month or two!
June 30th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
OSU is getting a lot of players and getting them early. But…except for Oden, the size and quality of their recruits may not be any better than MSU and not as good as the Illini.
It reminds me of Michigan where they have these great athletes and on paper they should win, but they wind up in the NIT.
OSU will be good, but not invincible. Oden is not THAT good to blow everybody out as a freshman. And after that, he’s gone to the NBA.
June 30th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Same old story . . .
Land a top-ten kid and you get a player with zero college experience for one year, and if another school gets him, THEY get a player with zero college experience for one year.
June 30th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
# 22 Dee Brown as an assistant…I have $2,500 to donate to that cause…no I don’t…but if I did I would definitely give to that cause. I hope there is room for him to start wandering the sidelines in the next year or two…but only if he doesn’t make the Jazz.
When I think about losing Turner I am disappointed only from a PR stand point. Obviously he is an amazing talent to receive a top 50 rating, but my gut tells me that he is over rated. I think he could go to OSU and end up riding the pine. I wish him the best.
Everything I have heard about McCamey reminds me of Deron Williams and if that is true I am okay with that.
Rose would be a nice finishing statement on this class but the Moore kid from East Chicago seems real intriguing to me. I think he could be an amazing college player and really help the Illini.
When I read that people think OSU is cheating I can see your point. But my dad knew Thad and said he was a really cocky jerk in high school but that he is not a cheat. Blame the NCAA for lack of institutional punishment for his recruiting success. He has more final fours, and national championships to promote “OSU’s ruturn to glory” than Weber has…yet…
June 30th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Brandon #22:
Forget about donating $2,500 to coach Dee. He will be busy playing in NBA. Instead, we should think about giving the money to the OSU assistant coach who’s been landing all the Fab Five recruits, and have him move to Illinois. I heard that OSU has landed 5 top 100 players including Turner, for 2007. That’s on top of the 5 Top 25 players in 2006. How is that guy doing it? It can’t be coach Matta. He is a vanilla personality coach.
Did McNarney committ to Illinois already? That is what is implied some of the blogs here. I had read in the News Gazette a couple of weeks ago that McNarney and Turner were a package and that Turner was really close to McNarney and that he had thought he was better than D. Rose.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Illiwis-
Greg Oden is a monster and will instantly be the best big man in the league, possibly the country. If not, there will only be 1 or 2 ahead of him.
Matta, if memory serves, won the B10 in a year that OSU was supposed to be middle of the road. Anyone that thinks he isn’t a threat or isn’t going to be able to put all that talent to good use is simply in a state of denial.
Derrick Rose >> Go Orange! You won’t regret it!
July 1st, 2006 at 8:18 am
JK: Go to Foxsports.com, mouse over the heading “More” at the top of the page, click on NCAA basketball “home”, scroll down to “recruiting news” and click on “top prospects from Scout.com”, click on “Class 2007″ and scroll down to player #81 and click on that player’s (McCamey’s) name. You’ll find out everything ya need to know my friend…not that I follow this stuff or anything..HA!HA!! In fact you’ll find out ALOT of things there about recruits. It’s fairly reliable source, for me at least. I’m sure there are other ones, too, but this one works ok for my pea brain to handle. GO ILLINI!!
July 1st, 2006 at 8:19 am
To any naysayers, please check out http://www.ilprepbullseye.com/
Somebody posted this URL awhile back and it has proven invaluable for my recruiting thirst. Here’s what it says about the two men mentioned in this blog.
McCamey: “McCamey is an outstanding athlete with a strong upper body and an explosive first step. He has the ability to take over games, which is a big reason why he has ascended in the national rankings”
Turner: “While he is not a great athlete and doesn’t do any one thing in spectacular fashion he is extremely versatile and therefore does a number of things extremely well, including handling the ball, rebounding, defending, finishing and hitting the mid range jumper. Above everything else, Turner goes to war and never takes a play off”
Personally, I’d prefer the Illini have a guy who can take over games and is ascending in national rankings rather than someone who’s versatility could get lost once he steps up in competition.
We won’t know for another 2-3 years, but I’m siding with Ryan in that McCamey sounds like another Deron Williams. I’ll take him. Welcome to Illinois.
Now, Derrick Rose. C’mon! Come to Illinois and you’ll be loved FOREVER no matter how long you stay. Go anywhere else and you’re the flavor of the week. We want you wearing ORANGE and BLUE. I-L-L
July 1st, 2006 at 10:12 am
If Ohio State is gonna be so awsum, why were the Illini grubbing it out with OSU at the last minute over an undersized, underqualified player like Turner? Note, OSU has “hired” a junior college “big” for 2006 or 2007. Not a move typical of a dynasty program.
And I thought I was the only one who didn’t care for Thad Motta’s demeanor. Ryan’s Dad thinks he’s a jerk. To me, he has a furtive, sneaky look about him at times. Not up to Bruce Weber, Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo standards. A little more like BILL SELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 1st, 2006 at 2:45 pm
I love Dee. I’ve spoken with him and wish him all the best as a player in the NBA. I know that has been his deram BUT, given the difficulty being a long term NBA player, I would suggest that he capitalize on some of his greatest assets. He has “IT”. Great smile, Great personality, quick mind, well spoken and loves sports. He should look long and hard at grooming himself to be an announcer. I, for one, think he could do very well as an announcer and of course I would hope that the Illini connection would come up often!
July 3rd, 2006 at 5:36 am
I think I’m already in love with Eric Gordon. Check out how hard he’s promoting Illinois, ala Dee Brown:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060702/SPORTS02/607020438/-1/ZONES04
I hope he can get Rose to come. By the way, great article by Tupper.
July 3rd, 2006 at 11:17 am
Coungradulations Dee And Augie i think u guys shoud have been picked in the first round but atleast u get to play with Deron on the Jazz team
July 3rd, 2006 at 11:19 am
I’m not sure which is more shocking. Losing a strong recruit or Illini fans being glad that they have moved down the recruiting ladder. Worst of all we are now excited about a kid who got “Offered” over a kid who has no real weakness? Remember ladies a guy who isn’t flashy but has no weakness is a guy who contributes from day one thru game whatever. I mean the scout said he does EVERYTHING EXTREMELY WELL!!! Glad he ain’t coming here!!!! Plus coach is so Godly he can make a player flashy if need be. For all of you who loved Roger this seems like his clone. And he would have been playing out of position. Even more Illini like!!!!
Why are we chasing a system (the three guard attack) that has won exactly zero national championships? If we want to be the tricked up program I guess that’s fine but the typical starting lineup seems to have worked for every national champ for the last umpteen years. I mean Loyola Marymount had a unique system going look where that got them.
Doug O - I would buy your theory except everyone said Dee couldn’t be a point guard and he pouted all year into proving us right!
Jeff Irvine - I realize this is blasphemy to some but I believe you are easily the most arrogant person on this blog. Must every answer be your life story followed by credential listing. You remind me of Marlin. Where did that rambler go? We get it. You went to Nam, you love the Illini if they go O and 1000, your the greatest, Blah,Blah, Blah. The easiest thing in the world to do is agree with the lead group. Just once for giggles tell us what the program has done wrong. (Without mentioning yourself). If you have an ounce of objectivity then I may take you seriously. If not please go back to eponym. ( I don’t even want to begin the discussion of how egomaniacal your own blog is). Now brandon is back! You guys have a very different definition of leaving than I do.
P.S. When Did Deron take over games? If that was true N.Carolina ain’t the champs. Hell Deron would have taken the last ten shots if at least last one!!
Paul from Atlanta - How’s the National Championship looking now??????
My new theory: Illiniwis and Editorboy are more than one person. I know Editorboy claims to have had his persona hijacked but I think some of his postings vary wildly back in the old days. Illiniwis varies wildly from sentence to sentence. There is racist Wis and then pro Illini apologist Wis, and finally dribble containment Wis. I mean the guy can cross reference the Sagarin ratings but never heard of dribble containment. Now the whitebread theory? Just a hunch
July 3rd, 2006 at 11:42 am
From the IB:
Roger Powell has signed a contract to play with the Jazz over the summer. He had a chance to play with the Heat as well, but he has very good chance of making the Jazz roster according to all involved. The Jazz brought Roger in to work out with Jerry Sloan the day their season ended because they were so interested after his performance in the CBA this season.
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Holy Cow!! Mikey reads my blog, man!! That makes my day, Mikey. After ya read it, don’t ya feel like takin’ a shower to get all that positive crap out of your system so ya can get back to your black hole version of things, man? Thanks for your support! Keep readin’, baby!! GO ILLINI!!
July 3rd, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Mickey: Nice to come back from vacation to at least one constant - your negativity.
For “the record” (whatever that could mean in this context), I said if we got three specific players, the national championship was a lock. I did not say it was unwinnable in their absence.
FYI, if you want to give me the same season-dominating, all year no. 1 chance to win it all that we had 2 years ago, then I believe I’ll play 3 guards again, even if you don’t like it. Its an unpredictable road, and in the end only one team wins it all each year, but I’d like to start every NCAA tourney with the odds that team had of winning it all.
As for Mr. Turner, yes, I am not in the “everything is fine” camp. When I saw we offered and got the point guard on his high school team (who seems like an extremely solid fall back if point guard option no. 1 goes elsewhere), I thought they had done it to secure Mr. Turner. Imagine my surprise when I found that he had committed to Ohio State. So, on that front, everything is ok, but not a great as I might have hoped. I do love all the people who now say Turner was overrated. I’m not buying that. Turner could have made this a great class, Rose or not. Now this will either be a pretty good class if Rose goes elsewhere (apparently Memphis or Virginia) or a great one if he comes. Stay tuned for that until the Fall.
July 3rd, 2006 at 10:28 pm
Yes, Mike, I pop in from time to time, but have resolved to not waste so much of my life arguing with you idiots—-all you do is bring me down to your level and beat me with experience.
July 4th, 2006 at 11:33 am
First, give Thad Matta credit for being one helluva recruiter. Losing Turner in this fashion hurts more than seeing Wright go to Kansas because - unlike the Jayhawks - Ohio State is not among the established programs. And when you’re done wringing your hands over this one, consider this: Matta already has TWO blue chippers COMMITTED from the 2008 class…Indiana SG Walter Offutt and 7-footer B.J. Mullens from Columbus. However…he also now has the same problem as North Carolina and Kansas — how do you divvy up the minutes to keep everyone happy? And does this formula equal success? Billy Donovan found out after years of trying that it doesn’t. He changed his approach…and won a national title. Still, I give the Hoopeston native Matta his due.
That said, I LOVE the McCamey commitment! Why? Now, Weber and his assistants can put ALL of their focus on landing Derrick Rose. If he comes aboard, great! It’s one of the best classes in school history. If not, there is the option of pocketing that schollie until the ‘08 class with the priority being finding a top wing player (Delvon Roe of Ohio, perhaps?!) If there’s no Rose, McCamey, Gordon, and Smith make a deadly backcourt with all the makings of a contender. Add Rose…and opposing coaches will find many sleepless nights! All this from Coach Weber who just a year ago allegedly COULDN’T RECRUIT! While it’s disappointing that the top-rated in-state kids aren’t rushing to Illinois yet, that will come. And let’s keep in mind just exactly what the high school player ratings mean — very little. Does Jamar Smith look like a 3-star kid to you? Did you ever think that Deron Williams (a 4-star prospect ranked as the 13th best point guard in the country as a senior — sounds a bit like McCamey, eh?) would become the highest drafted Illini ever??
I stand by Weber and his staff — he goes after HIS kind of players and his results speak for themselves!
July 4th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Now that the Draft is over, we can start to look at 2006-2007 Top Ten: 1)Florida, 2)North Carolina, 3) Ohio State, 4) Kansas, 5)Duke, 6) Tennessee, 7) Arizona,
Illinois 9)Wisconsin, 10) Michigan State.
It looks like last year’s good teams either lost a lot of seniors or the Draft ate their lunch! 20 early commits in the first round. That’s at least ten teams eviscerated.
Bruce did the right thing in going after Demitri McCarney and not waiting for Derrick Rose (although Rose may still sign up).
Basically, last year’s Ohio State champs had downscale guards who were “trained on the job.”
Wisconsin has new highly rated freshman guards coming in who were top 100, but they played in either small town Iowa or at Lake Geneva. They don’t have the “big league” high school experience of McCarney. Iowa now has second- tier guards from the Chicago Suburbs.
When you mix Reebok, Nike, McDonalds (with big bucks for post high school exhibition games) together with relatives of players and AAU coaches “running” the recruits, isn’t this a formula for dealing under the table?
This has to explain why the recruiting of some players like Gordon or Carlwell is quick and quiet and some like Sherron Collins, Patrick Beverly and Brandon Rush is a house of horrors.
July 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Has everyone been having a few too many 4th of July brewskis here?
July 4th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
KY (Jelly) Mike is full-steam, back on course to his old tricks. Are you a junior high English teacher or what? You’ve analyzed Editor Boy and Illiniwis’s writing styles. I never took the time to notice. (Sorry, RPIC)
Of course, we wanted Turner, but I think the point is that our recruits (even moreso if Rose comes on board) and current players will offset him. Quick, with all this analytical time on your hands, how about naming 50 true freshmen better than Jamar Smith last year.
July 5th, 2006 at 8:10 am
Kentucky Mike: I’ve been rereading some of my posts and yours, too. And I agree with you that they really do appear to be on the arrogant side. I have a hot head and I some times say, or in this case write, things in manner which is uncalled for. Editor is correct when he says this is a blog and don’t take things very seriously here. I also apologize to you and anyone else that gets bored with my “historical” BS. I will refrain from the history diatribe in the future. I also apologize for the name calling I have done in the past as well. Everyone should be entitled to their point of view whether I agree with it or not…doesn’t matter. This a free speech country…at least as of this morning anyway…who knows if it still will be by this afternoon? I also can understand your view of objectivety.. I do have very little of that when it comes to Illini stuff. Howvever, that doen’t mean I should push that view down anyone’s gullet. It’s only sports, not life and death. As for being egomaniacal on my blog, I hope you will forgive me on that as well. I just say what’s on my mind there. I’m not out to make any earth shattering statements or anything like that, just expressing how I feel. It’s just my own little place to write things, that’s all. You could get one, too. It’s pretty easy and it’s free, too. Besides, I only get about 5 to 8 hits on it every day. I don’t think that will have any effect on anything important. Anyway, I’m burying the hatchet on this and I hope you can also. If not, that’s ok, too.
July 5th, 2006 at 9:48 am
I heard a rumor that Roger Powell was recruited by the Seattle Sonics? But can’t confirm it.
He won the Rookie of the Year award for the Canadian league. Congrats Roger! He’s awesome.
July 5th, 2006 at 10:37 am
Jeff Irvine-
Do not cave to the classroom brat. Mikey is the only poser whom has ever shown such utter disrespect and contempt for anything you’ve written on here.
There may be others that are silent on the matter, but don’t cave to the minority brat when the majority appreciate your insights and passion for all things Illini.
July 5th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
Jeff Irvine, it takes a real man to say what you did in #48. Go Illni!!!!
July 5th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Jeff I for one am glad to see you back. Its nice hear what you think. I turn 50 in Oct. I’m not as seasoned as you but I have never cheered for any other school so I know where you are coming from most of the time. We all want to win but KyMike sometimes doesnt see anything good when we don’t. I too think we have the talent in the state to compete every year. But I can enjoy good coaching and kids killing themselves for our university even if they don’t win. I think we are on the brink of something really special and I can’t wait. I also think we are doing it the right way honest and above board. Go Illini
July 5th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Jeff - You know they aint no hatchet. I just get bored every now and then.
I do have a question for all fans. Will we really go three guards or small ball two years from now? I mean Carwell will be a soph and most likely very productive. Pruitt will be a Senior and I think our best post player. I don’t think coach is not going to start “The Wanderer” (my new nickname for Randle). And if Semrau can shoot consistently he needs playing time. It seems to me the bigs will be our best assets. I know Gordon will need and get time and someone will handle the point, but a third guard takes big minutes from our frontline. Granted The Wanderer will be in constant foul trouble but a big lineup may be our best formula. Unless we press I just don’t like the balance. God help us if we face a team with two small forwards who can dribble!! God help us more if Thad Motta actually wins something!!!!!
Nic - Would those fifty be compared to the wide open Jamar or the defender within arms reach Jamar? Unfortunately it only takes one better player at your position to cause you to lose the game. I actually love Jamar. Remember how smooth Cory looked or McBride looked there first years. Great shooters then everyone realized they can’t dribble. Jamar will be the real test if Coach can really “coach em up”.
Paul - You missed my post! Damn! I thought I had ya! I realize you were putting together a super backcourt and yes they would have been very formidable. But history tells me that backcourt was the pipe dream of pipe dreams ( And yet I still believe we have a real chance at Rose. (Who says I am not a typical head in the clouds Illini fan!) If coach doesn’t get two true small forwards for 08′ then I think it’s fair to rip him. Like my coach always said What’s a mismatch one way is a mismatch the other! Mark my words (For historical context) The Illini will get as far as they can until they meet a team with a blue chip small forward. Then we are done!!
Let’s hope McCarney is more like Deron less like Notree, McLain.
Illini fans: I am confused on a past player. Who transferred to LSU? Was it Notree? I thought he went to play for Jimmy. Please help as this is making me crazy!
July 5th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
I think the last Illini to transfer to LSU was a guy who never actually played for UI — Chicago King’s Jamie Brandon. I believe Notree did go to UIC to play for Collins. I’m running through my mind for other players who have transferred over the years (Wilson, Spears, Melton, Huge, Storey, Pierce, Schafer, Haffner…) and Brandon’s the only LSU connection I can think of. But…correct me if I’m wrong!
I’m disappointed to read a couple of reports today that say Memphis is ahead of Illinois for Derrick Rose. Let’s hope that’s not the case and that he’ll realize his chances for a national title and becoming a better NBA player lie with the Illini.
July 5th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
L.S. Thanks, I do remember him going strait to LSU. I couldn’t get Brandon Lloyd out of my head and that was driving me crazy. Put old Jamie down as another big Chicago guard who could not shoot worth a lick! Bad penetrator too!!
Jeff - You are garnering sympathy from your post. I am starting to feel like I am Rommel and you are Patton you desert fox you!
July 5th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
This is my first time responding on this blog. I have read it faithfully for about a year and have come to respect some of the postors on this board. Some of those are RPIC Editor Boy, illiwis, Paul from Atlanta and there are some that I can’t think of right now, but there are others. But I do know that I also enjoy reading anything that Jeff Irvine posts. It was really good to read what you wrote in your last statement. I wandered what made you write that, but whatever it was, it was a great thing to write. I don’t think you had to say all of that, but you did, and that makes you a pretty big man.
Now, I respect Mark Tupper very much. I like him, get very tired of reading all the junk that eventually comes on this blog. I was glad when he asked you all to stop name calling and correcting each other when someone incorrectly spelled a name. You all have done very well on the latter part. I come to this blog because I love to read about Illini sports. Some people have some great insight and new and interesting info that I didn’t know about. I appreciate those who sometimes give links to go to read about a current or possible future Illini. This used to be a much better blog than it is now. And it frustrates me when some of the good posters leave because they are frustrated as well.
I acutally am one of the lucky ones to have met Mr. Tupper. He actually invited me once to come to the radio station and be his personal guest on his Sunday night show back in the early 90’s. I was a college student and he really made my day. He gave me an ear-set and a mic and actually let me respond on air to questions. A year later I shook his hand at an Illini game and it really seemed he enjoyed talking to me again.
I am always fearful that is he gets tired of some of the things that people are writing and that he might be very frustrated at what goes on. He has some great information, and the only reason I go to the Decatur Herald and Review website is to see if Mr. Tupper has a new subject on the blog. And then I look forward to see what some of the posts are saying in response.
I will keep reading this blog almost every day and thank you to all of you who try to keep this blog clean and respectful. Mr. Tupper, I want you to know that you are very good at what you do, probably as many of us would agree, the best!
July 5th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
Jamie Brandon, what a name from the past! For those who don’t remember, he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated-they had the best HS senior, junior soph, etc. At that time Brandon was listed as the best 7th grader I think.
Who says that recruiting (over)analysis is a new phenomenon???
July 5th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
No problem. As I recall, grades/classwork was the issue. Brandon committed to the Illini and enrolled in the summer bridge program at U of I, but never put on a uniform before leaving for LSU.
July 6th, 2006 at 8:08 am
LS- I’d like to read those articles about Derrick Rose. I looked alot of places last night and didn’t see anything…I probably don’t know where to look. Speaking of sly foxes…which I ain’t smart enough to be one, Mike…but, Calipari(sp?) down there at Memphis is one and this worries me. He will turn on that good ole Italian charm and COULD steal our kid from us. By NO means am I casting any aspersions to those of Italian heritage..I’m dumb, but not THAT dumb. I meant that as compliment, paisano! Really, Mike that wasn’t supposed to be anything more that a communication between us. I do appreciate the other comments, I really do, but that was not my intent at all, amigo. I just realized it was silly to beat each other up here. We have more and better things to talk about..like this Rose stuff..it makes me apprehensive to say the least. This Memphis deal came along rather late, didn’t it? Reminds me of the Sherron Collins thing with Kansas. He was pretty sure about comming here and KU jumped in at the last moment and we all know the story from there on. This Rose thing, according to my recruiting Bible..Scout.com..it’s now only us and Memphis he has high interest in. It used be us and UNC. Just feels ominously like deja-vu all over again only with Memphis this time. At least they don’t have the rep of KU, but they do have sweet talkin’ Calipari. Someone wake me up and tell me I ain’t got nuttin’ to fret about and this is just a bad dream, ok?? Eric Gordon, if you’re looking in here, please have a heart to heart with your man as favor to all of us worry warts. Thanks, dude. (It’s not an NCAA violation for me to ask him to do that is it?) GO ILLINI!!
July 6th, 2006 at 8:11 am
I have been absent as I have actually had to work quite a bit. A small part of me says Calapari will somehow land Rose, as he is a super recruiter. I think Rose will have a lot more exposure playing in the big10 if he comes. Memphis dominates their league, but doesn’t get the air time like the big10. I think we are in good shape regardless, but landing Rose would put the Illini on the map in many different ways. I have lowered my expectations so I am not disappointed when he doesn’t come, and if he does, well, I have a nice bottle of champaign waiting.
As for the small lineup, Weber likes the ball movement and open shots it creates. He does need people that can score on the front court (Roger Powell’s offense was critical to our success). I think like most people here state, we are in good shape regardless of what Derrick does. Maybe McCamey is the result of us losing ground on Rose. That may push Rose to another school as well.
As for Thad Motta, you have to give him his due on his recruiting success. I agree that too much talent will be a problem for him unless they can put their egos aside and decide to play unselfish BB. Making the final 4 did wonders for Illini players and the draft, and look what it did for Noah (projected top 5 before he committed to return) and Thomas. Nobody had heard of Thomas until the NCAA tourney.
Here’s hoping that Gordon can convince Rose to join him in the Orange and Blue.
Thanks for your thoughts, most are a fun read carry good insight.
Shark
July 6th, 2006 at 8:19 am
In case you haven’t heard yet, KFAN radio announced this morning that OJ Mayo is committing to USC. He was rumored to go to K State and follow Bobby Huggins but I guess the lore of the left coast convinced him to head West. Too bad he won’t be an Illini but at least we won’t have to worry about him in the B10 play.
July 6th, 2006 at 10:24 am
The more I read this article, the more mad I get at Augustine. It actually tells me all I need to know (and already knew about him). He has no fire!!!!! If you can’t get excited about getting drafted into the NBA, then I want no part of you.
The guy probably went home and played video games or took a nap after going o-fer in the title game and fouling out.
That explains the lack of leadership on last years team and I predict a VERY short life in the NBA for Augustine “aka - HO HUM” unless he learns how to start caring.
What a freaking WASTE!!!
X
July 6th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Regarding Derrick Rose and Memphis, at this point it seems inevitable that Derrick Rose is an ABI player. (ABI=anybody but Illinois). As Jeff Irvine pointed out at #59, Derrick had said it was down to Illinois and N.C., and now it is Illinois and Memphis.
Putting on my hat as an amateur psychologist, I would have to say that this is a pattern of “teasing” that players like Sherron Collins, Brandon Rush and Derrick Rose exhibit.
It is like somebody who was “stood up at the alter” by a wealthy fiancee. It is a lifetime blow that is never gotten over.
The real question is why do these players with nearly identical backgrounds, i.e. big Chicago high school stars, with brothers, uncles, etc. as “agents,” have this extremely strong desire to “stand up at the altar” the Illini?
The Derrick Rose case is the clincher. You might posit that Sherron Collins and Brandon Rush were offered incentives to “jilt” the Illini at the last minute. But with Derrick Rose, you would have to imagine that he was offered incentives by N.C. which disappeared and that incentive magically appeared coming from Memphis.
The secret to this pattern is that growing up in Illinois, the State University represents the establishment, authority. Like the Cops. The paycheck of Bruce Weber is signed by the same guy who signs the paycheck of the State Police and the judges.
These players, whose fathers may have deserted the home, have an unconscious dislike of authority. They start my thinking that getting an offer from the State would be hooking up with that long lost authority. But at the last minute, they chicken out and opt for a last, parting act of aggression to “pay back” that authority who they believe will ultimately betray them in the end.
July 6th, 2006 at 11:05 am
KY Mike #39: judging by your brash eruption, methinks July 3rd must have been a real crappy day for you.
First of all, your despair over “losing” Evan Turner to OSU seems to have obscured the simple fact that, by all available measures, Weber has secured commitments from more and better high school recruits than any Illinois coach has in recent memory.
Go ahead and call that “moving down the recruiting ladder” if you want, but in my opinion you are wrong.
Secondly, “we” aren’t chasing a 3-guard attack system.
Bruce Weber is, and it’s his team.
Third: with all due respect, you calling ANYONE in this blog arrogant is so good an example of the pot calling the kettle black that is should be the standard by which all such statements are judged in this blog henceforth.
Fourth, you say “My new theory: Illiniwis and Editorboy are more than one person. I know Editorboy claims to have had his persona hijacked but I think some of his postings vary wildly back in the old days.”
Now let me get this straight: after I say that someone else has been posting under my name you come up with a “new thoery” that I’m more than one person, right?
Brilliant, Mikey.
Simply brilliant.
Do you think maybe that’s why some of my postings might have varied so wildly?
Sheesh.
(and just in case your statement was in fact a facetious comment, for the record, you’ve made plenty of claims yourself, old bean, and if you think it’s a bigger reach to believe someone has been posting under my name than it is for me to believe you have designed golf courses, you’ve skated yourself onto some thin ice on Lake Credibility)
As for your not-so-humble opinion of illiwis, say what you will, but not once has he (or she) ever made a disparaging statement about fellow bloggers that he (or she) has never met, which in fact lends credence to the notion that he (or she) is, in fact, a single person.
Lastly, I’d still like to get together with you for a coupla cold ones if you’re still coming to Decatur.
Can’t help it . . . it might just be the humanist in me, rearing its ugly head, but in my experience folks tend to be a lot more civil in person than they can be in a blog.
Nic #47: no apology necessary, old pal.
But if you’re still the blog pharmacist, it sounds like someone (who shall remain nameless) could really use a Prozac right now, though.
Jeff Irvine #48: hatchets are to be kept sharp.
Not buried.
KY Mike #53: now YOU’RE sounding like two different people.
Doberman attack dog in one post, positve rah-rah in the next.
I mean for cryin’ out loud how are we supposed to take you serious when you’re being such a Sybil?
Rommel indeed . . .
Andrew #56: thanks for the kind words, but you needn’t worry too much about what Tupps finds posted here in his blog. It provides him with fodder for articles and is a great way for him to check the pulse of Illini fans.
Shark #60: que pasa, Amigo.
Good to “see” you again (except for that small part of you that says Calipari will get Rose).
Hell, if he’s only gonna play one year of NCAA basketball, why not stay closer to home? And you gotta just LOVE that Gordon is working him over.
We should know soon enough . . . according to his big brother and handler, the decision is to be released by the end of the summer.
I won’t hold my breath, though . . .
Makes it too hard to suck down the margaritas.
July 6th, 2006 at 11:09 am
while I won’t be surprised if Rose ends up at Memphis, I question whether that will help him in his long-term goal of the NBA. Conference USA is a joke. Calipari, while he has NBA experience, isn’t a great bench coach. Dajuan Wagner was one and done under Calipari. Memphis went to the NIT, he went to the NBA, is he even still in the league?
July 6th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Jeff, first there is this from Mike DeCourcy of the Sporting News:
On the rise
1. Derrick Rose, 6-2, PG, Chicago Simeon. Amid a recent run of point guard-sized players who don’t know how to run an offense, Rose is the opposite–more of an Isiah Thomas/Chris Paul type but with better size. He must prove he can hit jump shots to complete the package. Memphis is in front of Illinois and several others in the race to land him.
The other was on rivals.com, saying Memphis leads Illinois. Both were posted this week and were the first national updates I’ve read on Rose’s recruitment since Memorial Day (and I’ve been checking almost daily) and the only reports I’ve seen other than Tupps’ column a few days ago.
This does smell a lot like the Sherron Collins situation, but I’m not sure he would have made grades anyway to attend UI - on the day he committed to KU, he had yet to successfully earn a qualifying score on the ACT. When you’re in the mix for the blue chippers the way Illinois is now, it’s no holds barred. Which is why Indiana seems to be in hot pursuit of Eric Gordon, even though he committed months ago and is remaining true to his word.
Thanks to NCAA rules (which - in this case - I think are a good thing!), we know very little about the recruiting process. I think if he could, Weber would explain the whys and why nots of his recruiting hits and misses and we would all stand behind him and his decisions.
I will say this and in doing so I’m not indicting any family, any coach, or any school…but stuff DOES happen under the table. I’ve seen it take place; I know firsthand of crazy stuff that’s going on right now among some of the elite programs. What if Weber learned of some sneaky shenanigans going on with a prime target and another school? Do you think he would stoop to that level in order to land the kid and keep the alums/boosters/fans happy? My jerk reaction would be “absolutely not”! I think he is a man of principle and is why I’ve written many times on this space that I hope he never coaches anywhere else. If - and remember, this is a big IF - there is something funky about the Rose recruitment, what a brilliant move to get McCamey on board as the point guard of the future while still working to land Rose the right way!
If Rose chooses Illinois, I want every national columnist who wrote how Weber couldn’t recruit and how he missed the opportunity to cash in on a title game appearance to sit down and chow down on a big plate of crow. Anyone who follows the game knows that it takes a year to feel the impact in recruting. Just as most of this year’s seniors will have made their decisions before Labor Day, next spring’s Final Four teams will find few immediate benefits on the recruiting trail.
Regardless of what Rose decides, don’t forget that Gordon is the one who will have the biggest impact on this program and he appears to be a man of his word. Still, I’ll sleep better once he signs on the dotted line in November!!
July 6th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Jeff - Calipari is very scary as a recruiter. Anybody who can convince stud athletes to go to Massachuesetts? can recruit. And with Gillespie not going to Indiana and Sampson going there I think that helps us. (By the way has everyone heard that he has been pounding the living daylights out of Gordon! Word is many, many coaches think that is the utmost of poor taste). This is why I think we should pound Indiana, Iowa, Texas et al. Chicago has been very poor to us and we may have to Ohio State those guys. Give them the onetime are you on are you off speech and move on. Let them know you can catch the train as it’s rising or you are getting left behind. We need to maintain the borderline cockiness on the court and embrace it in the recruiting!
Question: Did the success come to soon? Weber has definetly had to transition from recruiting second tier guys to the cream of the crop. I got to believe there is a tremendous difference in the way you approach guys going to SIU and UofI. I know he was in the loop at Purdue but now he chooses who to target, how to approach, closing the deal etc. I wonder if he would have been better off having the success now after a little experience. Just a thought.
Editor boy - I was in town last week for personal reasons so I was unable to give advanced notice. Did play Red Tail.
Observations: Native looks great, I think it plays very fair. Greens are milder than I thought. If the native was typical bluegrass rough the course would be very boring visually. I actually thought the holes thru wildwood (Floyds corner) were the worst. I wish the straight holes were less straight and the doglegs less 90 degrees. Still a great value and should be a real asset. (If someone would learn how to stage the carts it would be really helpful). Next time I’m home we should take a look. P.S. you stink!
July 6th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
#67 L.S. and the rest of you paranoid Brethren. This is on the current ESPN webiste under Andy Katz:
4. How strong is Eric Gordon’s verbal commitment to Illinois?
On the surface, it should be a lock. The guard out of North Central High in Indianapolis verbally committed to the Illini in November. There is an unwritten rule that a verbal commitment shouldn’t be touched by any other school, especially a league rival. There are plenty of exceptions, though — such as point guard Doug Wiggins of East Hartford (Conn.) High School, who backed out of his verbal commitment to St. John’s to go to UConn. So no one should be shocked if Indiana makes a play this summer.
If we lose Rose and Gordon, we may all have to strap ourselves down (to keep from hurting ourselves).
July 6th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
Jimmy Chitwood: Good call! I’m always paranoid when it comes to recruiting. I read the same thing on ESPN while I was looking for the Rose stuff. My gut tells me that this Gordon kid is a “man” of his word. I haven’t seen anything or read or heard anything to make me look at it otherwise. So, thanks alot, Andy Katz! I think he (Gordon) knows he would look like a real butthead if he backed out now. Of course, like already mentioned above by L. S., I’d sleep better if he had signed something. He just doesn’t seem like that kind of kid to me, Jimmy. But, hey man, I’ve been dead wrong before. Nuthin’ to do but sit on the fence and wait. I’d sure like to have a “word” or two with that Sampson character over in Hoser Land. Sweetheart of a fella, ain’t he?! Just another reason to fire up my animosity for that “place” over there..yeah right, like I need another reason!! GO ILLINI!!
July 6th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
#68 - Jimmy…wake up and smell the Sportscreme! This is the same Andy Katz who drank enough Kansas Kool-Aid to tout the Jayhawks as his Final Four team (they fell FOUR wins short)! The same Andy Katz who proclaimed just days ago that O.J. Mayo is headed to Kansas State. And the same Andy Katz who, on Wednesday, said ‘07 blue chip PF Kevin Love would make his announcement this week…only to have Love refute that report less than 24 hours later.
Andy is a solid journalist, nice guy, and a hard worker, but this is like reporting that the sun might set tomorrow. All he’s saying is Indiana MIGHT make a play for Gordon. NOT that Gordon’s leaving his Illini verbal commit; NOT that he’s been doing some early apartment hunting in Bloomington; not that he had a silhouette of Bob Knight tattooed on his bicep last week. Indiana IS pursuing Gordon and would love to become the frontrunner should he reconsider his commit to Illinois. It’s no secret — even Gordon himself has admitted to being contacted by IU coaches this summer. BUT…KNOW THIS…Gordon’s a smart kid who can count at least in the single digits. How many Weber-coached guards are in the NBA…and how many NBA guards were tutored by Kelvin Sampson? The answer is…I’ll buy the next round if Gordon winds up wearing Hoosier candystripe warmups in 2007. Besides, every such report linking Gordon and Indiana quotes 2nd and 3rd hand sources.
Compared to Illinois, Indiana has inferior facilities, a coach on probation, and not a single recruit signed for the 2007 class. The Hoosiers need players at nearly every position and - even with Gordon - would be hard pressed to crack the top 3 in the Big Ten in the coming seasons. I’m not saying Gordon backtracking is impossible, just that it’s highly improbable.
My final thought is this: would a kid who is considering switching schools go on the record (as Gordon did as recently as last weekend) and say he’s still trying to convince Derrick Rose to join him at Illinois??? Let’s leave the paranoia in the closet and go out and enjoy some nice summer weather this weekend!
July 7th, 2006 at 7:42 am
For what it’s worth, I read late Thursday night where Reggie Rose (Derrick’s older brother and the point man for his recruiting) said they will offer a “cut down” list of his potential schools after a camp later this month. He didn’t mention any schools specifically and didn’t make it sound like it was already down to two finalists.
So…believe this and/or whatever else you may hear or read. BTW, Rose squares off vs. O.J. Mayo at the ABCD camp today in NJ.
July 7th, 2006 at 7:57 am
I said this yesterday, but it was never posted. According to ESPN.com, the Jazz are trading three guards (including Mcleod) to the Warriors for Derek Fisher. It looks like they are trying to cut down at the guard position, so maybe they are trying to make room for Dee. I guess we will have to wait in see, but things are looking better for him.
July 7th, 2006 at 8:50 am
um, Derek Fisher is a guard.
July 7th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Hey everyone. It’s been a long time since I last posted here. Things have been very busy at work and I haven’t time to keep up on the blog. Some good posts lately and some very good conversation going on.
I want to change the topic for minute to the Cheif. Maybe I am late on this subject as I haven’t been reading the blog much. Anyway, there is some legislature being voted on to limit the NCAA’s power to force universities to change mascots. Here is the web site for more information: http://www.stopncaa.com/ I would urge anyone that is interested in saving the Cheif to write or call your state rep. and tell them to support HR 5289,called the Protection of University Governance Act of 2006.
Anyway it’s good to be back.
Go ILLINI
July 7th, 2006 at 11:08 am
The Utah Jazz playing Dee Brown is a no brainer.
Ilini fans saw that Dee was money in the bank and a pint-sized P.T. Barnum when it comes to publicity. The NBA is a circus and Dee Brown has the personality of the ringmaster.
If you look like Allen Iverson, talk like Allen Iverson, act like Allen Iverson and even play a little like Allen Iverson, THEN YOU’RE ALLEN IVERSON!!!!!!
The sad part is that if the Jazz cash in on the Dee Brown charisma, then Dee’s i.d. with the U.of I. may fade away!
July 7th, 2006 at 11:30 am
L.S. and others- all good points.
My point is that I went into a recruiting site to look for news about the Illini and all I could find was news about a player who could possible leave. Everyone else is landing top prospects while we are on death watch hoping our guy doesn’t go.
That’s my point.
July 7th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Winston-
Are you stupid or something? The Jazz give up three guards for one guard. If my math is correct then that still leaves them two guards short, and doesnt Dee play guard? Thank you for being a smartass though.
July 7th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
EXCUSE ME!!! Did you say Dee was another Allen Iverson? The only trait they share is their slight stature. Allen has shown a “man like” desire to get to the rim, put up shots and lead his team.
Dee had every opportunity to do so last year and did squat. I think he drove to the hoop all of 3 times the bulk of last year.
I am no fan of “The Answer” but I do know that Dee is no comparison. He is a “poor man’s” Iverson AT BEST!!!
Roll on that!
X
July 7th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
Editor Boy - I can’t think of anything more incorrect than your statement that It’s Weber’s team. That’s like saying it’s Bush’s country. Weber is the figurehead/caretaker of OUR PROGRAM!!!!! Unless he is bankrolling this thing he has people he has to answer to. In fact since the University receives money from the state and federal government. I would say he is playing with my investment. Also remember these teams are for ENTERTAINMENT. Not cancer research, or a homeless cure they are a product to entertain and generate revenue. I am most entertained by well executed sports that also maximize player potential and WIN. Average execution leaves me averagly entertained! I also believe that someone or something can be successful (even very) and still underachieve. Remeber the funny thing about expectations is they come true. Now whose expectations would you rather have mine or the rainbows?
I know I am arrogant! What I take exception to is people being arrogant and others calling it gospel. If you reversed the names of Jeff and my posts I know you would agree with him whole heartedly and that kind of backbone free crowd chasing is that which I have no use for. (Jeff this is not meant as a salvo)
You are correct that I have addressed Illiniwis directly without his initiation. I don’t believe he takes it personally (I guess it’s a he). If you look through past posts I dare ya to find another instance where I drew first blood. Can you say the same for the peaceful crowd?
Lastly what you call wild swings I call balance. Constantly believing that the Illini will get it done or constantly believing they won’t has gotten us all to this spot. Again if you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. I’m going to mix in a little positivity for a change. Your move?
LS - I don’t think any of us think Gordon will definetly leave. We just think it’s bad Karma to think he’s a lock! I went to school with a guy who was recruited by Illinois, and an SEC school. He spent the whole year fretting about the choice. His dad was going to buy him a car to NOT play for Lou! He ended up going to a second tier school and transferred two more times. And this guy was one of the most level headed guys I knew. I have always worked under the impression that if you are going to participate in something you play by it’s rules, both written and unwritten. If Weber is afraid to go right to the line then he should get another job. I DID NOT SAY CROSS THE LINE!!!!!!! But we must realize that this group of coaches who think what Sampson is doing is disgusting are the same coaches who picked Villanueva apart when Self left. If you are a D1 coach you are in the den of thieves. Shouldn’t be that way but that is how you have to play the game. Unless they give points for the amount of stand up guys on a team then we should rethink.
Peace out!
July 7th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Man Tupps you take more time off than Brian Byers. This blog has been here so long I think KYMIKE and Jeff Irvine are starting to like each other.We need our Illini fix any new tid bits you can spare. GO ILLINI
July 7th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
The following was posted today on the ILPREPSBULLSEYE website, regarding Derrick Rose teaming up with Eric Gordon and playing against O.J. Mayo tonight.
One question I had was his former teammate Calvin Brock. Is he trying to convince Rose to join or are they not close or has Brock soured on his Illini experience. I would be interested in hearing Tupper’s insights and talks with Brock.
———————————————-
Rose/Mean Streets Express Still Expected At Peach Jam
July 7, 2006
9:25 A.M. CST
While folks have been buzzing the past few days about Derrick Rose deciding to attend the Reebok ABCD Camp over the NIKE All-American Camp, when one considers the fact that rumors first leaked out concerning this possibility over a month ago, it really isn’t all that newsworthy in comparison with some more recent developments.
Instead, what has caught Illinois Prep Bulls-eye’s attention even more was the announcement by 6′4 Eric Gordon from North Central High School in Indianapolis, IN that he will join forces with Rose on the Meanstreets Express AAU squad which is scheduled to participate at the NIKE Peach Jam in North Augusta, SC.
Illinois Prep Bulls-eye finds it laughable that others have actually insinuated that by playing at the ABCD Camp, there are questions as to whether Rose and his Mean Streets Express team will even show up at the Peach Jam. We answer that one with a question of our own–why wouldn’t they show up?
The bottom line that too many people are forgetting is that Rose’s summer itinerary is not about recruiting. It is about playing with and against the best possible competition. ABCD allows Rose to do that, as he will finally square off against 6′4 O.J. Mayo from North College Hill High School in Cincinnati. The Peach Jam also offers Rose the opportunity to face some of the best competition in the country and there is no question that it looks to be one of the premier events of the July evaluation period.
There is also no question that Gordon has made his Peach Jam intentions abundantly clear–he wants to play with Rose. What is almost equally amusing is all of the talk that has surfaced recently regarding how solid Gordon’s commitment is to the University of Illinois. Considering that Gordon himself has said that he is playing at Peach Jam with the purpose of “trying to get Derrick Rose to come to Illinois with me”, Gordon’s remarks certainly don’t sound like someone who is wavering over their commitment to us.
In light of all of this, at this point Illinois Prep Bulls-eye would be quite surprised if the Rose-Gordon alliance at Peach Jam does not come about. As for how much it impacts Rose’s recruiting process (if at all), that is the part that remains to be seen.
July 8th, 2006 at 2:03 am
Jimmy…my apologies to you if I came off a bit rough. I’m a bit jaded with many of ESPN’s reports because they don’t hesitate to pass along rumors and then if they don’t come to pass, they just say ‘oh well’!
I’ve never been paranoid about Eric Gordon’s commitment, but for the first time I am a bit nervous…
In an article posted on illiniboard.com late Friday night, Gordon says that his commitment to Illinois is solid, but admits that he is giving Indiana a look. EG adds that he will talk to his parents about what to do come the November signing period.
While he does say “at this point, nothing has changed”, it’s the first admission I’ve seen that Indiana is even on his mind. Which tells me that somebody is getting to him. By playing his AAU in Bloomington this summer instead of with Speice, I’m sure he’s getting plenty of pressure from all sides to stay in-state.
I still stand by the kid’s remarks of trying to get Rose to play with him at Illinois…and perhaps this interview was done right after he got worked over by some IU assistants. Like KY Mike wrote, these are teenage kids who can be fickle and easily swayed. I used to keep watch on Derrick Rose and E’Twaun Moore…now I’ve added Gordon back onto my main radar.
July 8th, 2006 at 7:31 am
Dear The Legend: Derek Fisher is a PG. Deron Williams is a PG. Dee Brown is a PG. Do the math tough guy.
July 8th, 2006 at 8:02 am
An editorial from the Bloomington Panagraph:
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/07/07/opinion/115891.txt
I guess there is someone else who doesn’t think that everyone who won’t give if Chief is gone is “punishing” the University, although they use the word “penalizing” instead. And wonder of wonders, they manage to get thru the entire editorial without capitalizing “ABSURD” for emphasis. Usually the all caps thing is very persuasive as far as I’m concerned. Lower case points sometimes make no sense, but put it in caps and I’m on your side for sure. (Here’s that rolleyes emoticon again.)
A few thoughts from the link:
And….
PS: does anyone think that there are some people who are presently withholding funds from UIUC because of Chief? Are those people not “punishing” student athletes right now? I wonder which worthy cause they’re giving to instead of UIUC?
July 8th, 2006 at 10:44 am
There are a couple of pretty good articles on recruits and prospects in the Peoria Journal Star today http://www.pjstar.com/sports/
July 8th, 2006 at 10:52 am
tb: I think it’s more of being “tolerant” of each other..Ky.Mike and myself. I can’t say we like or don’t like each other because we’ve never met. I’d like to meet and maybe we could some day. How about it Mike? In fact, I’d like to meet all of ya someday! I have a belief that all of us here have one bottom line.. we want the Illini to be a national power every year and win us a championship or two. Now, that said, we all come at it from different ways and as Shakespeare wrote once “Aye, there’s the rub.” Some of us are, shall we say, more toward the “patient” end of the spectrum, like me, and some of us don’t want to wait because in their view we’ve waited long enough already, like Ky. Mike. And that view does have merit, in my opinion. We’ve debated alot in this blog the why’s, the wherefore’s, etc. That becomes a game of semantics and leads down that rotten road of name calling and aspersion throwing and all that stuff, It’s a road I just ain’t gonna travel down no more. Thus, I have just let go of the “I’ll get you back for that remark” attitude. In no way does that mean I AGREE with all viewpoints on this subject, it’s just I’m trying to be more accepting of fans with other ways of looking at things. Ok, that’s enough of this my rambling drivel on that. I hope someone or some entity takes a camera and gets some footage of the “Ick” brothers, Eric and Derrick, playing together. I would really like to see that stuff. As far as what is read on the internet or in the newspapers. I think we all know that they don’t know anymore about what Gordon or Rose or any other unsigned and/or uncomitted recruit will do in the future. And Mike is right about it being a cutthoat business and ya have to be willing to be a butthole on occasion. Coach Weber said as much when he said it’s the part of the job he likes the least and I’ve heard other coaches say that, too. But he’s a competitor and want’s to win as much as we all do, so I’m willing to bet he can play “hard ball” if he has to do it. We’ll never know because NCAA regs prohibit yapping about it..I think someone said this previously…and thus the wild speculation and rumor mills exist. Just have to wait and see about all this my fellow fans. It’s tough ain’t it? Waiting for an 18 year old kid to make up his mind sure ain’t my idea of fun, how ’bout you? GO ILLINI!!
July 8th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
For everyone wooring about Eric Gordon; He called all of the reports to be false. He & his Father reported that Eric is commited to the Illini! RF
July 8th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
Winston - Stay strong my brother! I only know of one Derrick Fischer in the league an he looks like a guard to me!
LS - Definetly not a death knell but nothing in your last post made me fee good. The last thing we need these guys to do is think!
July 8th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Since it takes FOREVER to get these posts caught up with the news and our latest postings, I’ve spent the last couple of hours running around the Illiniboard.com, Illinitalk at the Post-Dispatch in St. Louis website, the Peoria Journal-Star site, Chicagohoops.net and Scout.com. WOW! You talk about a soap opera. Some of ya may already know about some or all of this stuff and some may not. I don’t know, but Holy Molie here we go: Gordon will reopen his recruiting options-Chicagohoops.com. Illniboard response from Eric himself- in a word he said, “BS”, although with a “G” rating-nice kid! PJ-Star and Springfield Journal-Star reporter John Supinie interviewed Dad Gordon who AGAIN called it as above only with a “G” rating as well. Good news, I beleive! Indiana (of course) and Notre Dame were the supposed other “suitors” for Eric’s services. Whew is all I can say on that. Rose however, and his “handler”, as Editor so apty put it, will “open up his recruitment” and then limit it as we get closer to Fall. I say Ky. Mike is right on this point in this case. Tell this Reggie Rose guy either Derrick commits to us now or we look elsewhere. That Tyus kid may want to come here and he’s the kind of forward all of us want..the slasher type.. IF we can pry him away from Florida, and that is BIG IF!! The only problem with this approach is how will Gordon like it if we shove Derrick around?? What a mess for Weber. He’s only got that one schollie left open and where do ya go with it?? Rose, Tyus, or someone else?? Tell me ya don’t earn the money in this kind of situation? I’d be completely bald instaed of half and half like I am now, man. It’s also rumored and I repeat RUMORED that some of the coaches in the league are not pleased with Mr. Sampson’s “practices” since coming to Indiana. He’s under ALOT of pressure and I think, just my view, he’s starting to panic a little bit and cracking some. Just a thought. Supposedly Izzo is not thrilled with Kelvin’s antics. I don’t know. I thought they were buddies. Amaker ain’t happy and he has hinted at that recently..so it reads in the press, gang. Come on, Tupps, help us out, will ya? We need something from your newshound nose, ok?? And so are the days of our lives! GO ILLINI!!!
July 8th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Coach Calipari is definitely an amazing recruiter and a good coach. But if memory serves me correctly, Rose’s HS coach said that Rose wants to play with and against the best players. I figured he would end up at UNC but the already have the Frasor kid and Tywan Lawson coming in. Did anyone watch McD’s All-American game? Rose is good but he is not going to come in and steal Lawson’s spot. Thus UNC was eliminated from the equation. Memphis just got tons of press last year being a mid-major with a #1 seed, their coach is an amazing recruiter with history to prove it and as far as I know he has never been in trouble for any violations. So I think we should stop the character slashes against someone who doesn’t deserve it.
As far as him coming to the B10…look at the number of big time players that have been commiting to our rival schools. Our current crop of recruits are looking pretty good as well. He has a top 10 commit doing everything he can to get him to commit to the Illini. If what Rose’s coach said was true then we stand a real good shot at landing him because he will play against tough competition and with really good teammates. My thoughts are that we get a verbal (to Illinois) from Rose in August just like he said long ago.
July 8th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Just another Eric Gordon update…you might have read Supinie’s column this morning in which the Gordons refute an internet report that he had de-committed and re-opened his recruitment. They say nothing has changed and that he remains committed to the Illini.
July 8th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Uh oh, this today from the Rivals.com website.
I wish I could tell fact from fiction, as this goes back and forth, but in any case can’t be good news if doubt starts to creep in if Rose doesn’t come aboard and Gordon then bolts.
—————————————–
Odds & Ends
Sources confirmed with Rivals.com late Friday night that Eric Gordon de-committed from Illinois. Word spread like wild fire on coach’s row, too. Keep an eye on what Derrick Rose does with his recruitment, too. The two stud guards are keeping tabs on each other’s moves. Gordon is in Atlanta for the adidas camp and Rose is at Reebok ABCD.
July 8th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
WHEW!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!
I don’t know about you all, but I am getting dizzy trying to follow this thing. I am almost to the point where I say, “If he goes he goes”.
It would be a huge indictment against Weber (and the kid) and will confirm everything the naysayers have said about his lack of recruiting skills. Not a rosy picture.
HOWEVER!!! Remember the power of disinformation. The other schools are doing some serious mind f wording on us and are trying to stir the pot. Looks like its working.
(Let’s just hope it doesn’t work on Eric).
p.s.I would almost rather talk about the Chief again (and I hate that) just to get my mind of this as the more we talk the more we feed the machine.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:41 am
Mark, you’ll probably have something on this by the time everyone wakes up Sunday morning, so forgive me for posting this.
I was just doing one last recruiting search before leaving the office tonight and came across a story on the Chicago Tribune website. Let’s hope this (and the great info Tupps always gives us) will put the issue to rest:
Eric Gordon still is committed to play basketball at Illinois, and his father discounts nerve-wracking comments that suggested otherwise.
Gordon, the Indianapolis guard Rivals.com ranks No. 8 in the Class of 2007, caused a stir with a comment published on that Web site that he was “still solid with Illinois” but “thinking about Indiana too.” His father, Eric Gordon Sr., told the Tribune no switch is imminent despite the fact Indiana “would love E.J. to change his mind.”
“He’s committed to Illinois,” the father said by phone Saturday. “He loves the coaching staff, he loves the fans. If you hear him say in a newspaper, out of his mouth, ‘I’m not going to Illinois’—believe that. If you don’t hear that, there’s no reason to believe anything different.”
Asked if the younger Gordon would change his mind, his father said, “I don’t see any way that he would.”
The elder Gordon said his son’s published comments were the musings of a 17-year-old constantly fielding questions about Indiana. Gordon Sr. also said his son is not waiting to see where Simeon star Derrick Rose goes.”I don’t think that’s an issue anymore,” Gordon Sr. said. “Derrick and he are friendly. But since [St. Joseph star Demetri] McCamey is going [to Illinois], he’s fine with that.”
This article also reminds me of something else — be wary of internet reporting…because these people are not necessarily journalists and they don’t understand (nor comprehend?) the rules by which we journalists live.
Jeff, I liked your post on the possibility that Sampson has rubbed some the wrong way. I was once a fan of his, but the stories coming out of Bloomington since his arrival have made me think less of him. He’s not the man of character I thought he was. I’ve always despised the Hoosiers because of Bob Knight, but I admit that a strong Indiana program is good for the Big Ten AND for college basketball. That said, I find myself rooting against them in the recruiting wars this summer. I know the pressure is on to win and win now, but do it the right way. The new staff has already been spurned by Demetri McCamey and JaJuan Johnson (Purdue) and a Ft. Wayne newspaper is suggesting that IU is also trailing in the chase for Hoosier prep stars Robbie Hummel, Scott Martin, and E’Twaun Moore.
I’ve also lost nearly all respect for rivals.com. It is getting lots of attention for the Gordon interview I mentioned in an earlier post…an interview that was done by their rival site, scout.com, without giving an attribution. I’ve worked in the media for nearly 20 years…and that’s a flat out no-no! They’ve also downgraded Gordon to a soft verbal. More reasons why I turn to Scout.com first! (and no, I don’t work for scout.com!!)
July 9th, 2006 at 10:25 am
For more on the Gordon story, go to http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060709/COLUMNISTS01/607090473/1004/SPORTS which is a sport editorial in today’s Indy Star. If this won’t get you there, search for Indystar.com and then go to the sports section and then to the editorial by Kravitz. It certainly does raise doubts about Sampson’s “code of ethics” or lack thereof. Oh yes, I live in Indiana, but my orange and blue blood will never change.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:37 am
It’s hard to know what to believe. Gordon would have a strong motivation for not announcing his recruitment to be re-opened unless he was absolutely sure about it, since he wouldn’t want to alienate the Illinois fan base if that’s where he ultimately wanted to end up.
That said, there’s also a lot of good reasons to think someone else might be spreading misinformation. Perhaps a rival recruiter for Rose wants to sow doubt in his mind about whether or not Gordon will be there if he goes to Illinois. It’s also possible that Gordon is simply allowing Sampson and his staff to make a pitch, which someone misreads as renouncing his commitment to Illinois.
Still, though, I see very little reason for Gordon to go to IU. He’d be headed into a program in shambles to play for a coach under investigation who hasn’t demonstrated an ability to develop NBA guards. Who knows, kids make poor choices sometimes, but Gordon and his family always struck me as more interested in success than snake oil.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:24 pm
#95:
Good link and editorial about Gordon. Certainly, the Gordon’s bear some fault for not being more firm, clear and decisive with the IU staff and reporters. But the majority of the blame still rests with Sampson for not honoring the unwritten rule of verbal commitments that Donovan and even Bruce Pearl talked about. It goes to show how far down the ladder he has fallen, but then this is from a coach that was the president of some NCAA sports ethics committee, who then proceeded to make some 517 phone calls in violation of NCAA rules on illegal contacts with recruits. I wonder if he is going to try to talk Rose into transferring to IU once he enrolls at Illinois.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
For those who want to know how next year will line up, the following is a statistical approximation of Sagarin points using Scout.com number of 5,4,&3 star players, with each class, i.e. frosh, sophs, jr.s weighted as each class tends to impact final Sagarin:
Kentucky 100, Kansas 97, Washington 94, Maryland 92, North Carolina 92, Oklahoma 91, Duke 90, Arizona 89, Oklahoma St. 86, Texas 85, TexTech 85, Ohio State 83, Wisconsin 83, Ga Tech 82, UConn 82, Mich State 81, Illini 78 and Louisville 78.
I neglected to rate Miami since my formula was only built for my top 17 programs.
The star rankings tend to be about 45% predictive with a standard error of 13 places in the standings.
The interesting thing is that having a lot of 5 star players as freshman doesn’t help as much as you might think, i.e. Ohio State.
In going through the star rankings, it seems that the Illini are considerably ahead with having nearly an entire 2007 class locked up already.
Three teams, N.C. Duke and Ohio State have 9 of the top 25, with 5 more teams having 2 of the top 25 each (Texas, Louisville, Kansas, Ga.Tech and Washington). That only leaves 6 for the whole rest of the top programs.
Some teams have really fallen off with this class, namely TexTech, Kentucky , Maryland not to mention the Illini.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
To those who worry about Derrick Rose choosing Memphis over Illinois because of John Calipari, I say you should be worried. Out here in the east, Calipari (the former coach at Umass) always had a reputation of being a slick looking, fast talking snake oil salesman. He was never buddy-buddy with the other coaches here in the east and I believe that was their choice not his. Some of you may remember when John Chaney, the former Temple coach, busted in on a Calipari press conference and threatened to kill him. Consensus opinion out here was that John Chaney was just one in a long line of people that wanted to kill coach Calipari and not many people thought less of Chaney for saying out loud how many felt about Calipari, including his fellow coaches.
My point being, you don’t get a reputation amongst you piers like Calipari’s, by being an above board, doing it the right way kind of guy. I believe most coaches don’t resent other coaches for winning, but they will resent those other coaches who aren’t winning the right way. I’m sure is wasn’t the winning that got John Chaney’s ire to the boiling point, it was the way it was being done.
So let’s hope that Mr. Rose and his handlers are smart enough to look at a coach for his character and his program, and not just listen to the words that are coming out of his mouth. Because John Calipari is a hybrid of a slick talking politician and a high volume used car salesman. He’s the Bill Clinton of college basketball. He’ll have these kids so convinced about how great they’ll be playing for Memphis that they will hardly care that they just bought his 1978 Pinto for $5,000.
Fear #1 - Calipari gets Derrick Rose.
Fear #2 - Calipari uses Rose as leverage to pry Gordon away from Illinois.
If Rose chooses Memphis, let’s hope Eric Gordon is a high character guy, because I think I know which end of the character spectrum John Calipari resides at.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
Hey Zeus! This Gordon saga gives me tired head!
Illiniwis - Please explain your Sagarin post to me. I swear I don’t understand how Kentucky would be number 1 and Ohio State would be so low. I got confused when you said Kentucky was losing ground I, eh. Let’s say I am confused but interested.
As much as I hate the Gordon speculation I would rather talk about it for ever than go back to Chief talk.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:32 pm
Oh, now this is rich. From that IndyStar link above:
Wow. Just wow. (Here’s the “jaw dropping in sheer amazement that anyone in this world or the next would consider Bruce Pearl as an quotable source on the subject of ethics” emoticon.)
July 10th, 2006 at 1:05 am
Gordon is committed to Illinois until Derrick Rose makes his choice. If Rose goes Illinois, then Gordon is a stone cold lock to be there.
If Rose opts for somewhere else, then I think Gordon will “officially” re-open his recruitment.
DRose is the key in all of this.
July 10th, 2006 at 9:24 am
I agree with an earlier post. Who’s to say that Memphis isn’t behind the Gordon to IU rumors? Perhaps if there is a perception that Gordon won’t be an Illini, could that make Illinois less appealing to Rose?
You may have read the NY Times article about the possibilities of Rose and others playing overseas for a year and living off sneaker endorsement money. Also, I noticed Reggie Rose still lists a handful of schools who are active in Derrick’s recruitment and the first two he named (in this order) were Illinois and Memphis.
July 10th, 2006 at 9:31 am
KY Mike #67: I stink?
Well sure, I threw together a really nice olive oil and garlic pasta last night so it’s been a gassy morning, but how the hell did you know?
Agreed on Red Tail . . . the holes on the old Wildwood course are the most awkward (and oddly enough, the LEAST mature in their development as golf holes). Hopefully the awkwardness will smooth out with time.
And aside from staging the golf carts, the entire club house staff needs to learn a little something about customer service, but that’s a problem at our other courses too.
Anyhoo, glad you had the chance to play the new course, and I’ll look forward to an opportunity hoist those cold ones with you later.
L.S. #70: excellent observations on Andy Katz.
I’m not sure how he got where he is, but for the most part he’s always struck me as the kind of guy who can’t find his ass with both hands.
KY Mike #79: coming from an expatriated Illinoisan who now lives in Texas, thatn’s might big talk about Weber playing with YOUR investment.
And your idea of “balance” is pretty far off the beaten path too, but if you feel the need to “mix in a little positivity” all of a sudden you’ll get no arguments from moi, mon Ami.
X-MAN: perhaps the ONLY two things we’ve ever agreed on: Augie’s biggest problem all along is he that he has no fire, and Dee is certainly no Alan Iverson.
But the idea of the Jazz taking a chance on Dee and his obvious chemistry with Deron Williams does intrigue me.
tb #80: you are CRACKIN’ ME UP, pal.
Wintson Smith of Joliet: go back to My Space already, would ya?
Lastly . . . WOW, what a buncha dizzying rumor and innuendo regarding young Mr. Gordon.
I’m with you, KY Mike . . . let’s get back to beating a dead horse and yak on the Chief for a change of pace here, huh?
Sheeesh.
Of course I’ll breathe easier when it’s a solid deal, but Gordon’s father made it very clear that he is quite comfortable with the choice of Bruce Weber as Eric’s groomer-in-waiting, and I’ll stick with that.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Kentucky Mike #100-Try this! Multiply the number of players times the number of stars in each class. Then add them up. For Kentucky, I get 56 and Ohio State I get 47.
However, when you correlate class by class to the Sagarin, you get a much higher relationship for juniors and senior ratings to the Sagarin. Since Kentucky has more stars in junior and senior classes, they come up better.
There are some problems in this when I try to eliminate players who have been drafted from memory. The correlation is about 45% which is at least a starting point.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Let’s see now. Editor is tired of all the recruiting talk and Mike is tired of all the recruiting talk AND the Chief talk, So, hmmm. Ya both like golf, so let me talk about that then. I’ll have you both know I actually hit the ball through the clown’s nose on the 19th hole at our local putt-putt course as a kid and won a free game once! Honestly, I really did. But, I could never figure out that one hole where it’s slanted like a volcano and if ya don’t putt it just right to drop it in the hole at the top, it just rolls down the other side. I spent many a frusrating seven strokes on that one alot! Is that better, guys? Just kiddin’ fellas, but you both set me up so well, I just couldn’t resist this one. I’ll sit down now. Ok, let me have it. GO ILLINI!!
July 11th, 2006 at 8:04 am
well, I have been complaining for months about the need for Illini to get top 30 recruits. But I were the decionmaker about scholarships at Illinois, I would withdraw the derick Rose offer and find another player. Rose is no more than a one year and off to the NBA guy. Know we hear in the Sun Times he may not even go to college! Let’s find another top 50 guard, or an athletic forward, and move on…..
July 11th, 2006 at 8:37 am
Check out this URL
http://www.suntimes.com/output/prep/cst-spt-rose11.html
It might be very concerning for College hoops in general if these players persist in their lawsuit to enter the NBA or go overseas or just hire trainers. I think the quality of basketball in the pro and amateur ranks will go down. Anyways, I have stopped counting on Rose for the Illini…If it happens, I’ll be thrilled but I am not counting on it.
July 11th, 2006 at 10:06 am
Jeff Irvine #106: I didn’t say I was tired of the recruiting talk.
I AM, however, sick and freakin’ tired of all the discussion over RUMORS surrounding a kid who made the announcement he was committing to Illinois months ago.
And I actually hate golf.
I just can’t wait to play it again as soon as possible.
Chi-town #108: it should indeed be a huge concern to both the NCAA and NBA that a group of potential future stars are threatening to bypass college altogether and go straight to their lucrative contracts.
Just goes to show you what kind of B-S befalls the game at both levels when the NCAA’s focus is on mascots and the NBA’s focus is on all the cash that a one-in-a-million kid like Lebron James can bring in.
By the way, Chi-town, you should have never COUNTED on Rose coming to Illinois in the first place.
Like pizzaman said in #107, Derrick Rose is an unproven, one-and-done kid.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:13 am
re the article on Rose going “shoe” overseas. Don’t forget we heard the same stuff about Brandon Rush, that he was a fly by night, etc.
And he’s coming back for a second year for Bill Self, apparently.
I didn’t know Illinois is a Nike school and Indiana is an Adidas school. Key question…is Derrick Rose being paid by Nike or Adidas? That could make a difference here!
July 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Here’s a very interesting quote from that Sun Times Article:
“While the rumor has faded away, the perception remains that the thought of attending college is viewed as an annoyance by at least three of the top players: Rose, O.J. Mayo and Bill Walker of Cincinnati.”
I am a realist in that we go to college to prepare for our jobs, most intellectually but in the sports world by growing athletically. Can these HS kids grow athletically somewhere else, dedicate their lives to athletics and not academics and come out better for it? Maybe so, and if they don’t want to become better people through the watchful eye of our coaches, and better scholar-athletes to prepare them for what the next challenges of life will throw at them, then the University of Illinois is just not their place. Maybe Gold’s Gym or the European circuit is actually the best thing for them. I personally think the University of Illinois will prepare them, humble them, force them to play defense, and better prepare them for the rigors of the NBA than the other two options, but that is a choice they have to make.
As for Eric Gordon, I believe they (both he and his father) saw the value of that preparation and chose Illinois because of it. Let’s look further in the Sun Times article and see what his happening with his recruiting:
“They’re playing the game a little bit,” Schmidt said. “More than anything else, the whole thing is being driven by shoe company politics. Look no further than the fact that Indiana is an Adidas school and Illinois is a Nike school.”
Gordon plays for the Indiana Elite club team, sponsored by Adidas.
If these kids are that good, and shoe contracts pay them in some cases more than their NBA contracts, they start to be influenced by the shoe companies and which schools align to which company. If Eric Gordon switches, and there is no logic as to why he would ever play for someone like Kelvin Sampson, whose team is not that talented, etc… I say it is because Adidas is the influence somewhere in this picture with the promise of a shoe contract.
Hopefully Eric will continue to do what is in his best interest. I hope his father sees that as well. He will be better prepared all-around if that is the case.
Shark
July 11th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
It is obvious that Derek Rose and family has one thing in mind $$$$. There is nothing wrong with that, but I’m not sure we need that attitude on our Illini basketball team. So where would the chemistry be for his one year? What would the other team members think of his plan? I’m starting to agree with others “he’s a one and done”, so maybe it’s time for Bruce and his staff to move on to someone that really wants to be an Illini and play team ball for a couple years at least.
July 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
These young athletes of today are worried more about the $$$$$$$ then about what is best for them. What happens if Rose skips college and signs a shoe deal and then gets hurt in a pick-up game or he gets hurt riding a motocycle (like Jay Williams) and then his career is done? Atleast Jay Williams has something to fall back on because he got a degree. If Rose and the rest of those players are really as good as everyone says they are, then the money and contracts will be there waiting in a couple of more years. I think it is stupid to skip college, but I also have not had millions of dollars at the tip of my hands.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
On the BOT’s agenda for its meeting on Thursday are the following:
1) Naming new members to the Athletic Board.
2) Naming Chief Illiniwek-hater Stephen Kaufman a Professor Emeritus. (BOOOOO)
3) Giving AD Ron Guenther a raise to $500K yearly from his current salary of $410K. Plus a “loyalty payment” of $250K if he honors the contract through 2009. Wow! it’s like Jim Hendry getting a contract extension from the Tribune despite mediocre results with the Cubs!
Hey RPIC Editor Boy, my manifesto is on my myspace page. Do you have that in Decatur?
July 11th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Rose coming to Illinois would quell the “BAM can’t recruit” talk and be a PR victory for Illinois. It might help further the momentum that Weber and staff have with elite recruits. I think we can all agree that would be a good thing.
Whether him coming to Illinois would translate into success on the court, assuming he comes for one year only, is unknown.
Perhaps the conventional wisdom is a-la Brandon Rush—kid is a great player, could probably go straight to the league.
Get said kid on the floor and maybe he’ll get humbled just enough to realize he needs more than 1 year of college ball to be a lottery pick where the huge $$ comes from.
I’ll be happy when it’s over and we know…but I am on the fence as to whether we should stop recruiting him. I think that sends a bad message.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
I want to add one thought. The NBA seems to have the habit of taking kids straight out of HS based on the reputation and ‘prospective’ that they may become great NBA players. Once in College, they have to prove themselves at the next level. That often plays out quite differently. Strike while your market value is highest. As for Derrick Rose and other HS players, they may in fact be better served by not playing college ball and going into the draft unproven, since the NBA has the reputation of taking unproven players in the first round on a whim and an prayer. If you actually go to college, you may not shine as brightly as you did in HS. So, if you are a top5 player, why go to college and see your value drop. Previously, until the new rule where you have to be out of HS a year to be drafted, there were top 5 HS players all over the first round (which is what every kid wants, guarantee 3 year contract, financial stability with the minimum for 3 years at least, and probably 3 years to prove yourself). If they go to college, they will have to shine very brightly to make the first round. There are european players, early entries, and good players everywhere. I watched this years draft, and it goes very quickly.
If you are that good in HS, and the NBA has the reputation of taking a lot of unproven HS players in the first round, logic tells you to sell yourself now, and bypass college, or you may go down. If you are not a first rounder out of HS, then you go to college to work your way up. The new rules make this decision difficult for those top 5 players to go to college and potentially drop, sit out and out of sight, out of mind, or go to europe for a year. In any of those scenarios, they have the potential to see their draft status drop from first round to out of the first round.
I hope both EG and DR see the value in bringing championship play to Illinois and have enough confidence in their own skills to want to prove themselves at that next level.
Shark
July 11th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Don’t miss the “summer series” in depth on all
Illini players, starting with Marcus Arnold on
Scout.com
http://illinois.scout.com/2/545898.html
July 12th, 2006 at 6:46 am
Personally I think we should just relax until the Peachjam. Gordon is going to play with Rose with hopes of getting a commit from him. If that doesn’t work I think we should still relax because we really need a 3 much more than we need another point.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:30 am
The Maywood, Ill. paper reports this morning that McCamey hopes Rose joins him at Illinois. He (McCamey) seems like such a great character kid. I’m looking fwd to seeing him grow as a player under Weber.
You might have seen where Alex Tyus committed to Florida on Tuesday. He had Illinois as a finalist, but with the one remaining scholarship tattooed with Rose’s name should he accept it, there may be several players in the coming weeks and months put Illinois in their top three but opt to commit elsewhere.
I totally agree with that plan. Rose is worth the schollie. The benefits outweigh the negative.
1) You dismiss the critics who say Weber can’t land the big fish and can’t draw the top in-state kids.
2) You help develop a potential future All-Star. Indiana is STILL known as Isiah Thomas’ school, even though he stayed only two years.
3) Once he leaves, you still have an upper echelon point in McCamey, so you will remain in the national picture.
Let’s all pull for Rose to commit to UI. If he doesn’t, Weber has a manageable 4-man class in ‘07, and would have an extra scholarship (total of 3) to give in ‘08.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:16 am
Winston Smith #114: do we have WHAT in Decatur?
Manifestos?
Myspace.com?
Smartass teenagers who think they know more than Ron Guenther?
Yeah, we got all that.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
It’s “have” not “got.” Sounds like the self-proclaimed “editor boy” needs a copy editor.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Winston #121: I am every bit as well educated in correct grammar as I am in the use of little deviations from proper usage.
By the way, there are four broken sentences in your #5 post, you didn’t capitalize the first word in the first sentences of your #65 and #72 posts, there’s another broken sentence in your #65 post, four in your #83 post and another two in your #114 post.
Naw, I don’t need no copy editor, kid.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
Since things are slow here, I am rolling out my latest Star.com star count/Sagarin correlation.
This seems to ice the question as to exactly how much star rankings correlate to the Sagarin. Surprisingly, if you take the average number of stars for all players in 02,03,04,05 and 06 right off the Star site, and you run a correlation with the 2006 Sagarin predictor, you get a correlation of 88%, otherwise known as a “beta” of 88%.
This means that 88% of the success of next year’s team is almost certainly baked in right now. The standard error is 3 points. This means that the Illini are 67% sure of getting between 84 and 90 on the Sagarin predictor.
Last year, of course, they out-performed and were around 89 all year.
I did this for only the Big Ten teams ’cause it is so darn tedious!
The Big Ten standings should be, in a perfect world, Michigan State(88.33), Ohio State(88),
Illinois (87), Indiana (84.89), Michigan(84), Wisconsin(82.6), Iowa(81), Minnesota (80), Purdue (75), Norwestern (74.4) and Penn State (70).
From these numbers, you can see that even with the Greg Oden Juggernaut, Ohio State is still only looking at #2.
The pattern seems to be that every 3 or 4 years, EVERY team seems to get a big recruiting class, except for the Penn States, it is 1 four-star and 4 three-stars, in other words just 1 star downscale from the best programs.
After going over these stars for the entire Big Ten, it looks like the Gordon’s, the Rose’s, the Dee Browns seem to sprinkle themselves around by looking at the mix at each school.
In other words, it’s a self-fulfilling situation where Michigan State, say, will get a certain mix because they have always gotten that same mix before.
All this would predict against Derrick Rose signing up, because the 5 stars always put themselves in with 4 and 3 stars, rather than attracting to other 5 stars.
The Ohio State situation is the exception, but this leads me to question where the star rankings of those kids going to Ohio State are deserved.
My next goal is to correlate the number of 4 and 5 star “bigs” to the Sagarin. That would tend to justify, (or not justify) Bruce loading up on “bigs”, and going with 3 star “smalls.” (Gosh I wish the next season would start!!!!!!!!!!!)
July 13th, 2006 at 12:41 am
This Foggy night in Chicago I am feeling fretful.
I would like to hear everyone’s commentary on the following article in the Chicago Tribune.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/cs-060713recruit,1,7050551.story?coll=cs-home-headlines
It sounds to me like Eric Gordon Sr has changed his tune somewhat and that Kelvin Sampson may be up to some dirty tricks.
Maybe it’s alls fair in love, war and basketball recruiting. I just have the feeling that Coach Weber is above all that.
Curious to hear you’re comments
BTW- James Augustine is writinga blog on his summer league experience for the Orlando Magic. Find it here.
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/06summerleague_interviews.html
July 13th, 2006 at 7:42 am
Dear RPIC: “Well educated” (sic) should be hyphenated. If you lived north of I-80 you would have used proper grammar in that instance.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:25 am
In today’s cutthroat world, it should come as no surprise to anyone that unethical things are happening in the world of college BB recruiting. The once sacred cows, such as not contacting a recruit after he/she verbally commits, are apparently no longer sacred. With the NCAA at the controls, I see things like this getting worse than better, since they are more worried about political correctness than ethical recruiting practices. I sleep very well at night, though, knowing that BAM & his staff are most assuredly doing things the ethical way.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:17 am
Winston: actually, the phrase “well educated” is proper with or without a hyphen, and you are proof positive that living in an upper latitude has more to do with one’s ego than one’s level of intelligence.
Tupps - about time for a new thread, don’t you think?
The levels of both coherence and relevance are dropping off dramatically.
Coherence and relevance levels are sinking rapidly.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:09 am
Pistol Pete: I think Gordon is more of a scared cow than a sacred cow, but then I live north of I-80.
July 13th, 2006 at 11:13 am
One fine day in Brooklyn . . .
A duck walks into a bakery, waddles up to the counter and says “Gimme two pork chops!”
This greatly annoys the baker, who replies:
“What da hell do you tink dis is, a butcha shop? Dis is a BAKERY and we don’t have no pork chops! Now get the hell outta here!”
So the duck leaves.
The next day, the same duck walks into the same bakery, waddles up the counter and says “Gimme two pork chops!”
This greatly infuriates the baker, who replies:
“I told you yesterday, dis is a BAKERY, not a BUTCHA SHOP. Now get the hell outta here, and if you come back and ask for pork chops again, I’m gonna nail your little webbed feet to da floor!”
So the duck leaves.
The next day, the same duck walks into the same bakery again, waddles up to the counter and says “Got any nails?”
This greatly annoys the baker, who replies:
“What da hell do you tink dis is, a hardware store? Dis is a BAKERY and we don’t have no nails!”
So the duck replies, “Good! Then gimme two pork chops!”
July 13th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
RPIC: “The levels of both coherence and relevance are dropping off dramatically.
Coherence and relevance levels are sinking rapidly.” Why did you write two sentences to say the same thing?
As for Gordon/Sampson/Weber: Sampson has every right to keep recruiting Gordon. However, Sampson is quickly becoming the most disliked coach in the Big 10.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
Winston: I suppose it could be considered some sick sort of flattery, but your obsession with what I say (and how I say it) could be a sign of a serious psychological disorder.
If so, I hope you get well soon.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
If Gordon has verbally committed then people should back off. Sampson has no right to try and intervine. What ever happened to “My word is my bond?”
July 13th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
Winston Smith- You say that Sampson has every right to keep recruiting Gordon, however, he is quickly becoming the most disliked coach in the B10. Do you suppose those 2 thoughts are related? While he has the right to do it since there is no written rule against it, there is an unwritten rule against it that he has broken. I’m sure this breach of ethics has put him in disfavor with the rest of the B10 coaches before he has even coached a game in the league. With the track record he brought from OK, he wasn’t in a very favorable light to begin with.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
It seems like the BTen coaches are lining up in two groups: The Good guys, Bruce, Izzo, Bo Ryan, Matt Painter, the Penn State guy and the Not-So-Good Guys: Kelvin, possibly Thad Matta and the former BTen angels Bill Self and Bruce Pearl, (who are still haunting the Midwest).
The fallen angels like Self, Matta, Pearl and Kelvin seem to have a special power over the waivering souls like Rose, Rush, Collins, etc.
I would be embarrassed to watch soap operas, but some people like Bruce W. must feel like they are in a soap opera nightmare that won’t end when it comes to recruiting.
Blame the Shoe Companies (did you know Reebok and Adidas have merged, seriously!), the Eastern Media, ESPN (who love Bruce Pearl), the Chicago media and the hapless (sp?) NCAA.
Maybe James Augustine could write in the off-season for the Herald-Review or the News-Gazette. OR MAYBE WRITE SOME BLOGS! Seriously, he is a hell of a writer for a new grad, if that’s really his work. Great p.r. for the NBA (what team is he on again??)
July 13th, 2006 at 8:45 pm
I recall a few instances where RT had obtained a verbal from a player, only to see that player get recruited by another school and go there. Gentleman’s agreements are worthless. Heck I expect Ron Zook to keep going after kids who are verballed elsewhere. It’s a dog-eat-dog world out there, kids.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
There is this written by the Sporting News’ Mike DeCourcy:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=108166
I have tremendous respect for Mike and he is one of my favorite national journalists. Certainly he brings up a valid point regarding the letter of the NCAA rules governing LOIs. Removing myself as an Illini fan, my concern is this: a verbal commitment is like a marriage engagement…you’re announcing to the world your intentions to soon make a more binding commitment. The purpose of the oral/verbal commitment is to halt or at least significantly slow down the recruiting process. If the oral commitment doesn’t mean anything, then what’s the point of making one? Say Johnny X commits to ABC State next week - why should anyone care? Why should coaches stop bombarding him with calls and text messages…when “no” doesn’t necessarily mean “no”? (sorry…couldn’t help it!)
I have no problem with being aggressive, and I chuckle when reading the Indy Star article that quoted Billy Donovan - himself once accused of questionable recruiting tactics - saying a verbal commit means it’s time to move on to the next target.
But this is not an indictment of Sampson (though I’d like to do that) as much as a test of the Gordons’ character.
Eric says he wants to play in the NBA…there are 5 Weber-coached Illini currently on rosters; only one NBA’er (Eduardo Najera) coached by Sampson.
There has been talk that Eric wants to play with other great players. There will be at least 5 top 100 Illini (6 if Rose comes) next fall; only 2 top 100 Hoosiers in ‘07.
Sampson has run afoul of NCAA rules (and I think I read somewhere that Gordon said Sampson called him — if that’s true, that too is a violation) and is on probation. Weber is as squeaky clean as they come.
In the end, I do believe Gordon will wear orange and blue. And reading about how he and Rose are blowing it up at Peach Jam, let’s hope he’s convincing Rose to join him in C-U.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:25 am
“If Gordon has verbally committed then people should back off. Sampson has no right to try and intervine. What ever happened to ‘My word is my bond?’”
If you consider word of mouth agreements sacred consider this. Coaches are frequently fired before the end of the contract. Coaches resign before the end of the contract. Professional players are frequently allowed to renegotiate contracts after an outstanding year. Written contracts are constantly broken by lawyers who manage to dig for loopholes. Consider the Illini fans. We were furious that Guenther stuck with Turner and furious that Self bailed. Face it, intergity and sports are not necessarily parallel. Fans are hippocrits in their expectations. “Sports don’t build character, they reveal it.”
July 14th, 2006 at 9:09 am
The Herald-Review’s sister newspaper in the Mattoon/Charleston area featured an excellent editorial on Rose and Gordon today and what it signifies regarding the state of recruiting in American universities. I recommend it.
http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2006/07/14/sports/sports%20004.txt
The sentiment can be summarized in this paragraph: “If Rose (rejects IL by going overseas, etc.), I’m not sure I wouldn’t be the first to cheer him on. C’est la vie. Too bad it wouldn’t put an end to the whole laughable process of recruiting as we currently know it, whereby overexposed, attention-seeking young men are coddled in an endless slobberfest.”
July 14th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Aren’t Kelvin Sampson’s efforts to recruit Eric Gordon somewhat hamstringed by NCAA sanctions?
After all, the NCAA banned Sampson from calling recruits and making off-campus visits for one year (OK - a mere slap on the wrist, given that making 577 more phone calls to prospects than allowed would have meant the death penalty if it had been an Illinois coach).
Although no sanctions were imposed on Sampson’s assistants, the NCAA’s decision required IU to adopt the same self-imposed restrictions as Oklahoma, with the notable exception that Indiana won’t be slapped with any scholarship penalties (which WERE included in Oklahoma’s self-imposed sanctions).
Yeah, sure . . . Sampson is permitted to contact recruits via text messages, letters and email, but Eric Gordon’s father seemed to place as big a premium on a coach’s integrity as his ability to develop players, right?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
(from the Indy Star):
“The No. 1 thing is just the coaching staff,” the elder Gordon, also named Eric, said of the Illini, coached by Bruce Weber. “They recruited him since he was younger. They’ve shown so much interest in him.”
The elder Gordon also cited the proximity from Indianapolis to Illinois’ campus in Champaign, and the way Illinois developed guards Deron Williams and Luther Head.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Of course, more recently the “elder Gordon” has been quoted as saying:
“It’s like saying ‘I’m committed to my girlfriend, but I can still look. I’m not dead.’ ”
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060709/COLUMNISTS01/607090473
So now, as if all the innuendo and internet rumor-mongering weren’t enough, we have Eric Gordon’s father spouting crap like THAT.
Of course the hits just keep-a-comin’ from Eric Sr., who has also been quoted as saying that his son’s decision is final, and that he wishes all the other coaches, media and hoopla would just go away.
But wait . . . if you REALLY want to feel P-O’d about Gordon’s rumor-cruitment, check out what they have to say at Phog Blog:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
“Late last week, there was a bit of a furor brewing regarding Eric Gordon’s rumored de-commitment from Illinois. While I enjoy a good Illinois de-commitment and the pandemonium that ensues all over the unpaved roads and grassy sidewalks of your average Illinois fan’s simple brain, it all sounded a bit too clean, especially since the writer that was floating the comments was about a thousand miles away from Mr. Gordon.”
http://phogblog.com/2006/07/10/gordon-rose-and-soft-commitments/
Wow.
Left me shaking my head.
Which of course caused quite a disruption along the unpaved roads and grassy sidewalks of this Illini fans simple brain.
Coming from a Hayjock fan, that’s pretty hard to take.
But then again, Hayjock fans have had a LOT more time on their hands to come up with really stupid stuff to say, what with their basketball season ending so early 2 years in a row and all.
I was maintaining a positive outlook on Eric Gordon’s “soft” commitment, but I have to admit that there is now enough rampant speculation out there to make a good dog jump the fence.
I guess accurate reporting of recruiting is a lot like accurate forecasting of weather, and sometimes it just rains like a sonofabitch on your parade.
Okay, so maybe it IS a dog-eat-dog world when it comes to recruiting high school kids.
If so, let’s all keep our fingers crossed that our gentleman coach is up on all his shots.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:59 am
Here’s a question for Winston Smith. Remember, this is just friendly, electronic dialogue. Since you think gentlemen’s agreements are worthless, are you also OK with cheating on exams, taking steroids & growth hormones, etc.? Or is it just the unwritten rules that you think are OK to break? Where do you draw the line?
July 14th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Pistol Pete: EJ himself has said that although he gave Illinois a verbal, he is interested in the new coaching staff at IU. Can you blame IU for continuing to recruit him? The vast majority of coaches would run over their grandmother if it meant getting a top recruit.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Well, it looks like we’re either getting Derrick Rose or no one else in this year’s recruting class because E’twaun Moore just verballed to Purdue. I really liked the Moore kid and thought he could be a perfect compliment to Gordon and McCamey. Now I don’t see us leading with any other 2007 recruits at this time.
So if we don’t get Rose, do we just stash the scholarship away until next season or do we try to find another player for this year’s class?
On another note, is anyone else perplexed by the number of commits Ohio St. is racking up in the classes of 2006 and 2007? They have 5 scholarship players signed for 2006 and 4 already commited for 2007 (with 1 or 2 others possibly committing in the near future).
If those players all stayed 4 years (I know, highly unlikely) 80-90% of their team will be made up of seniors and juniors. How is this possible, does OSU have a unique situation (large graduating classes) or are they just counting on many of those players leaving early. Because traditionally, you’ll see teams with big recruiting classes (4 to 5 commits) the next year only offer to 2 or 3 because they don’t have enough scholarships to go around! Is there some magic forumla that I just don’t understand? And if not, why don’t the Illini sign 4 to 5 players every single season, instead of the 2 to 3 that we usually have?
Someone please help explain this! Thanks.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Editor: I believe in Gordon and his dad. Until, like Pop said, you hear it from ERIC..don’t buy it.(whatever IT is) So, I ain’t buyin’ into any more speculation or rumor or innuendo(sp?). Of course, we all should try to remember that these kids DO read what people like us have to say on these boards and if we doubt them enough when they something, they just might say, ok if that’s what they believe then I’m outta here. They are only 16-17 years old. Try to remember being that young. A week back then was like a month to us older guys now. Their mind can wander ALOT in seven days. We have until NOVEMBER…over 100 DAYS… to wait. Until then, we just have to show Eric some love and believe in him. I know I’ve said some things about this, too. But I take it all back. I hope Mr. Gordon and Eric will forgive my doubting them. They are men of their word in my view. People should be, and up to now are, free to give their opinion on this board and any other open method of communication. That’s the way this country operates…for now at least. But, PLEASE remember that the kid you are doubting has already said NUMEROUS times that we shouldn’t fret about him. He’s going to be an Illini. How many times must he say it to us until he gives up and does the unthinkable as we continue to question him? The same goes for Derrick Rose and his family. Until we hear one of them say they ain’t comin’ here, just let them know how happy we are to be considered by such a great player. On another note about that article in the Journal-Gazette Times-Courier, the writer makes an excellent point and I agree with alot of article. BUT, with schools, the NCAA, the shoemakers and the almighty TV networks making dough hand over fist from these kids, don’t expect anything to change from a moralistic standpoint. You know the saying.. money talks and BS walks… in our capitalist world here in America. Ain’t nobody gonna slaughter the Golden Goose, baby! Thanks for listening y’all and stay cool everyone.. both inside and outside..Have a nice weekend and GO ILLINI!!!
July 14th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
#142 Through and Through…let me take the last thing first. Thad Matta has done a great job of getting the most out of his scholarships, which Ohio State clearly has had a lot to give. Every team is limited to 13 scholarship players total. By my count, OSU will have only 11 under scholarship this winter, and only 12 in the ‘07-’08 class. And there are two rising juniors who have already committed to OSU for fall ‘08. Because there was only one true freshman in last year’s class, the Buckeyes could add a 3rd consecutive 4-man class in 2008. So, for those sick of hearing about Matta, stick some cotton balls in your ears! I’m curious to see how the program will handle attrition. Certainly no one expects Greg Oden to stay longer than a year or two, but I’m curious to see how many other kids stick around or transfer, a la the Kansas program.
E’Twaun Moore was a longshot. Though it appeared that he was very high on Illinois, he also had stated that he wanted to go to a school where he could play right away, and that wasn’t going to happen behind Eric Gordon and Jamar Smith.
I would speculate that whether that final scholarship is used this year or next depends on the timing of Rose’s decision. If he waits until October to make up his mind, will there be a high caliber player available to Weber and co.? I would think he would pocket it for next year and give himself 3 schollies to work with for the ‘08 class. But I’d rather he not have that decision to make!
One other thought on Moore going to Purdue…that makes Kelvin Sampson 0-3 this summer. Demetri McCamey, JaJuan Johnson, and now Moore have all said ‘thanks, but no thanks’ and it appears that Robbie Hummel will follow suit and head to Purdue in an announcement on Monday, according to several reports. Counting Gordon, Hummel would make it 4 of Indiana’s top 6 recruits spurning the Hoosiers, and a 5th - Hummel’s HS teammate Scott Martin - appears to be leaning toward Purdue or Michigan at this point.
Indiana remains the only Big Ten school without a verbal commitment from the 2007 class, and only a couple of top recruits are seriously considering the Hoosiers. Certainly the coaching change is a big factor in this, but given all the recent controversy it makes one wonder if IU’s recruiting priorities are in order.
Final Gordon thought - rivals.com has reinstated his status on its website to “solid verbal” commitment to Illinois. Eric, we look forward to cheering for you wearing orange and blue. Make it a storybook career, stay three years and lead the Illini to a national title in your hometown of Indianapolis in 2010!
July 14th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
There is a nice article on the teaming up of Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon at the Peach Jam tournament against some sophomore.
I get the feeling that either Gordon is going to talk Rose into coming or neither one of them is coming.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=561264
July 14th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
Bruce has done better so far with 11 players. That way he doesn’t have to ’sit” good players.
E’Twaan Moore would just be an “also ran”…look, he ended up at Purdue. It will all come out in the numbers and Bruce will be up there regardless.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:23 am
ATTENTION ALL BLOGGERS: I just got home from the grocery store. While putting the 2% milk in the frig, I saw MARK TUPPER’S photo on the carton!!! Anyone of ya who knows of his whereabouts is advised to call the Herald-Review ASAP!! That is all.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:16 am
#139 - I love the comments from PhogBlog. “Unpaved streets and grassy sidewalks”…sounds a lot like Lawrence, Kansas, doesn’t it?? Jayhawk fans should know the city well, having spent many a March restless night wandering aimlessly and muttering to themselves.
Kansas Recruiting Slogans You’ll Never See:
- Kansas Jayhawks - Give Us A Year and We’ll Give You Permission To Transfer! (unless your name is Micah Downs)
- Why “Rock Chalk”? Those are the things you’ll be throwing in the parking lot once you realize that Coach promised 8 other guys that they’d start too!
- The Promise of a Great Education - We at KU think playing basketball in April just makes the season too long!
- The Chance to Meet New Friends! - enjoy your basketball roommate now…chances are he - or you - won’t be here next year!
- A Shot At The Final Four - you’ll never get there with us, but our fans and ESPN think you will…and doesn’t that count for something?!
- Beware of The Phog - actually, it’s the Fog that seems to descend upon our team at crunch time and in tournament play.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
The only reason that Sampson is getting away with trying to steal other teams’ verbal commitments is because he has no commitments for other teams to steal from. Wait in the future for the situation to be reversed and see if he starts complaining.
If he had spent all the time devoted to Gordon towards trying to sign the state of Indiana’s other recruits, he might have gotten some recruits and not lost Johnson and Moore (#2 & #3 prep prospects) to Purdue.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
I would have to think that after putting on a dominant show with EJ, we would have to be leading for Rose at this point…
July 16th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
I can’t imagine the excitement of playing with Gordon won’t push Illinois ahead in Rose’s estimation at least temporarily, which will help solidify Gordon’s commitment. And, by the way, I don’t see anything wrong with a kid exploring his options even after he’s announced a school. If I were in that situation, I would be chomping at the bit to announce just to get the pressure off, but it’s perfectly understandable if he wants to make sure he’s making the right choice when his state school changes coaches. I don’t think the Gordons are hiding anything when they say they’re just curious to see what their option is at Indiana, and I seriously doubt that they’ll end up backing out on Illinois after they’ve really looked closely at the situation.
PS– Winston Smith, I’m glad to hear they have internet north of I-80 now!
July 17th, 2006 at 7:50 am
Why do you have to hate on Kansas? Is it because they have won national championships and the Illini havent?
July 17th, 2006 at 8:52 am
Don’t mistake “Hating” for “Gloating”. Those championship banners didn’t play very well against Bucknell and Bradley.
We LOVE Kansas…who’d want to be bounced from the tourney on opening day two years in a row?
Thank you Kansas, for altering the course of our fate and absorbing the best head recruiter/worst coach! Roll out the balls, Bill, those talented guys can figure it out for themselves!
Rock Chalk!
July 17th, 2006 at 10:30 am
I guess losing in the first round is worst, but Kansas finished in the same place as the Illini the last two years, not national champs. When was the last time the Illini won a national championship?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Any fan of any team would rather lose deep in the tourney or in the title game than bow out in the first round.
But…if I’d lost two years in a row in the first round to what were obviously less-talented teams, I might change my mind on that and just wish for a first weekend exit to put me out of my misery.
If you’d rather lose early than keep playing a few games, well, that seems quite odd…
July 17th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
I never said a team wants to lose in the first round, but if they did then they still accomplish the same thing every other team does when they lose. You never answered my question though, when was the last time the Illini won a championship?
July 18th, 2006 at 6:40 am
Gee, I guess I struck a nerve!
Legend, nobody is hating on your Jayhawks. In fact, my cousin played for KU - even choosing Kansas and Roy Williams OVER Illinois…so I’m a closet Jayhawk fan because of the family connection. But they’ll always be #2 in my book to the Illini.
The thing is…Kansas’ program is SO overrated right now. Outside of the title game appearance vs. Syracuse in Roy’s last game, what has Kansas done since the 1988 championship? Self’s a nice guy and a phenomenal recruiter, but he’s developing a pattern of underachieving with HIS players.
Check this out — Self used the “Illinois went to the Final Four with MY players” line in his recruitment of Sherron Collins, and it worked - congrats to him. But check out the pattern - at Illinois, he went Regional Final, Regional Semifinal, 2nd round…in that order in the NCAAs. At Kansas - coming off the NCAA title game, Self has gone Elite Eight, 1st round, 1st round. And I have news for you, this year’s Kansas team WILL NOT reach the Final Four. I don’t what Dickie V. or Andy Katz or any other expert says…the Jayhawks are a longshot. Mark it down.
Kansas basketball is like Notre Dame football, the Dallas Cowboys, Boston Celtics, and Montreal Canadiens — storied sports programs/franchises that were once kings of the hill, but haven’t won anything lately (though Notre Dame may soon move off this list). And their fans always want to point to 30-year old championship banners (in your case, 18 years). We give you your props…while suggesting that someone go up and dust them off!
My poking fun at Kansas was in response to the phogblog comments (copied in an earlier post here) in regards to the erroneous reports of an Eric Gordon de-commit. Decommitments are never a problem at Kansas; it’s getting the kids to STAY that’s become an issue!
Enjoy all of your McDonalds All-American as they trot in and out of games this season. And take up a collection to take them out for Big Macs when they lose in the Sweet 16 (if not before).
To answer your question, Illinois has never won a national championship in basketball. But when they do, we know you’ll be quick to come on here and ask “but how MANY has Kansas won?”
July 18th, 2006 at 11:21 am
Don’t ya just love it when fans of other programs decide they need to come over to our sites?
Maybe KU fans should go over to Missouri and find something called a “library”, and ask to see something called a “book”. Then (once they find someone to read to them) they can find out all the answers to their questions. After that they can mosey on back to Kansas and feel good about all the championships they’ve bought-er, I mean won fair and square.