Freshman tight end Jeff Cumberland was also an accomplished basketball player at Brookhaven High School in Columbus, Ohio, averaging 15.4 points and whipping down a school-record 76 dunks as a senior.
“I’m not sure he couldn’t help coach Weber,” Zook said last week at the Big Ten meetings in Chicago.
Then on Sunday, at Illinois’ football media day, Cumberland said he had already been across the street to watch the basketball players work ou. “I thought about joining the team,” he said. “Before, coach Zook told me if I relly wanted to do it, he would look into it and talk to the basketball coach and try to get me a tryout. I plan to do it, but later on in the season. I might be worn out and not want to do it that much. I’m going to wait.”
Translation: Cumberland was a very good high school basketball player, a 6-5 power forward with great hops. He still loves basketball and wonders if he could compete at this level. But these things rarely work out. For one thing, he was a late academic qualifier and my advice would be to spend any extra time making sure you’re solid academically. If that works out, then give it a thought. But the football-basketball-academics triple crown would be incredibly demanding.
I don’t expect to see Jeff Cumberland in an Illini basketball uniform, but I never really expected to see Walter Young in an Illini basketball uniform, either, and that happened.
Cumberland’s value to Illinois athletics is as a football player. It sounds like he may have a special future as a college and pro player. Wait until you see him run. Both West Virginia and Marshall talked to him about losing a little weight and becoming a wide receiver. Marshall could see him as Randy Moss. Illinois wants him to slowly gain a little weight and be a tight end who gives defenses coverage fits.
They are moving practice to 3 p.m. today, combining the split squad into one group. I’m alread getting excited about the intrasquad scrimmage at 6:30 p.m., Saturday at Rantoul High School.
Someone said we haven’t had a chance to analyze Zook’s coaching abilities. That’s true, although there are a few parts to coaching. Teaching in practice is coaching and we’ve seen some of that. Coaching strategically from the sideline during a close game is what we know little about. The folks at Florida didn’t think much about his abilities in that regard, but to judge, Illinois would actually have to be in a close game.
I look forward to making that analysis. That will mean Illinois had bridged the talent gap and is competing once again. Hooray!!! An exciting football game to watch late in the second half! It’s been a long, long time, brothers and sisters. Too long.
August 9th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
Good post, Mark. Ok, everyone, here’s the over/under on when this blog gets hijacked into “bickering mode” like Shark’s kids. The current line is five posts…any takers? GO ILLINI!!
August 9th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Man I’m trying not to get too excited but I am. It seems like forever since I have seen good football from Illinois and I am ready.
August 9th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Cumberland sounds like a find; we’re lucky Tressel passed on him. And, for the sake of trivia, Brookhaven High School also produced another pretty good power forward on the basketball court who went on to pro stardom… Paul O’Neill of the Yankees.
August 9th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Great insight, Mark. I think the time demands on a student-athlete playing 1 sport is a lot to handle, let alone trying it in 2 sports. If he/she lets their academics slide, they won’t be able to participate in either. More power to anyone who can do it, though. Kyle Hudson seems to be doing well at 2 sports.
I’ll be optimistic & take the over, Jeff. Go Illini.
August 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
The first game of the season last year was pretty darn close. And we won it.
August 9th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
So if Zook is willing to let Cumberland check into basketball, does that mean Weber will have to let C.J. Jackson check into football?
I seem to remember Tupps mentioning something about Zook stalking Jackson last year…
Jeff Irvine #1: “bickering mode” starts when the bickerers make their first posts.
tb #2: me too, man. Me too. I’m hoping the anticipation over seeing all the new talent will be enough to tide me over until hoops.
Pistol Pete #4 (or anyone else): has Illinois even had a 2-sport athlete since the days of leather football helmets?
(I’m old, but not THAT old…)
Found some positive news in the 2007 recruiting rankings at Rivals.com (updated yesterday):
POINT GUARDS
Derrick Rose moved up to #1 (and still has Illinois on his list)
Demetri McCamey moved up to #9 (solid verbal to Illinois)
Tony Neysmith moved up to #10 (and now lists his interest in Illinois as “HIGH”)
SHOOTING GUARDS
Eric Gordon moved up to #1 (solid verbal to Illinois)
Darquavis Tucker moved up to #5 (and added Illinois to his list)
SMALL FORWARDS
Bill Walker moved up to #2 (and added Illinois to his list)
Herb Pope moved up to #6 (and added Illinois to his list)
Jason Henry moved up to #7 (and still has Illinois on his list)
POWER FORWARDS
J.J. Hickson moved up to #3 (and now lists Illinois as one of 7 schools in which his interest is “HIGH”)
Nayal Koshwal moved up to #6 (and now has Illinois on his list)
Bill Cole moved up to #39 (solid verbal to Illijnois)
CENTERS
Mike Tisdale moved up to #16 (solid verbal to Illinois
August 9th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Jeff—Seeing as how I’m number 6…
Over.
Cumberland sounds like a great athlete…would be nice to see him on both sides of the street, but you’ve gotta keep your academic house in order first.
August 9th, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Since no one has “started” anything YET and we have gone well past 5 posts, the winner is (drum roll please) Pistol Pete, who was first to choose the “over”. Tell him what he’s won, Charley O’Donnell… “Pete, you have won a years’ supply of our “adult” orange kool-aid, a pair of orange-tinted sunglasses or contacts(your choice) and a free copy of the “Rainbow Handbook for Die-Hard Homers”! Congratulations!! And GO ILLINI!!! PS- Interesting bball info there, Editor. That should get the bickering posts up and running, don’t ya think??!!
August 9th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Re: Illinois not being in a close game so we can’t judge Zook’s coaching ability. Actually, the Illini have been in one close game under Zook - the OT thriller vs. Rutgers. Say want you want, but Zook is 1-0 in close games. I am looking forward to more close game wins.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Editor: My Dad told me MANY TIMES that Dike Eddleman(sp?) in the late 40s (I think that was a leather helmet era, though) was a multi-sport athlete at U of I…football(I think he still holds the record for the longest punt-80 yards or so-although that might have been broken), basketball AND track..I THINK he won 11 varsity letters..WOW!!. He also tried to play baseball, too, but couldn’t fit it in..no wonder!! He was an Olympic high jumper, too, if memory serves. I believe some of our football guys have been track guys as well…can’t give ya any names though. The bball and fball double HAS to be the toughest though. Preston Pearson (Dallas Cowboys) played bball here and went on and played in the NFL…but no fball in college. That’s all my brain can come with for ya at the moment. Good night! It’s about bedtime for this old man. I probably left someone out and I do apologize if I did. GO ILLINI!!
August 9th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
You guys all suck!!!!
Just kidding- I didn’t want the love to go on uninterrupted for too long.
Editor Boy (if your info is accurate) that is what we all wanted to hear in regards to recruiting. Now all they need is a sharpshooter like myself and the program would be golden.
August 10th, 2006 at 7:20 am
RPIC EB There was an article in yesterday’s Herald & Review about Kyle Hudson from Mattoon who played both baseball & football for the Illini last year. He hit .370 for the baseball team & led the football team in reception yards as a freshman. Not sure if he’s doing both again this year.
Thanks for the uplifting news on recruiting rankings. Always good to hear something positive. Go Illini.
August 10th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Here is another story on the tight ends, with a discussion of impact freshman at the end.
http://www.sj-r.com/sections/sports/stories/93089.asp
Looking at the schedule, we should have two lock wins in Eastern and Ohio. Syracuse is apparently awful, and its at home, so maybe that’s 3. Rutgers will be mad after last year, and they are getting better, but its still Rutgers. Let’s call that a maybe. Looking around the Big Ten schedule, I see 3 maybes - Indiana at home is the best chance for a win. Purdue is down, and at home. And Northwestern is in turmoil, although its away and the game is at the end of the season, when the turmoil will have either subsided or turned into chaos.
Throw that all into a bag, and I’d say it looks like 4 wins - 3 noncon and one Big Ten. Not great, but something to continue to build on. If the recruiting continues the way it has, 2007 could be a pretty good year.
August 10th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Jimmy Chitwood #11: the info I provided in #6 is the gospel according to Rivals.com, and I assume no responsibility whatsoever as to it’s validity.
It certainly does shing a brighter light on the Illini’s short-term future, but Weber could get the top three guys at every position and STILL take flak for his recruiting ability.
Pistol #12: that was a good article on Kyle Hudson, and was just one of a series Tupps has been running every day this week. For anyone who missed it:
http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2006/08/10/sports/illini/1016901.txt
Paul from Atlanta #13: SAY IT AIN’T SO!!!!!
You’re not already actually predicting the Illini win/loss record, are you?
You’re counting your Chicken Littles before the sky falls on them
August 10th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
John Wright was a topflight hurdler in track. His Dad was the track coach at illinois for years. He was a wide eceiver on the football team who played a couple years with the Detroit Lions I believe. That was late sixties, early seventies, but not quite leather helmet days.
August 10th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
RPIC Editor Boy ~ So what does all that mean to us? Do you think we are actually considering someone other than Rose with the last scholarship? We will definitely need another…a high-scoring small forward to round out the class but after hearing what Gordon and Rose did together all summer I think I would want to see him wearing an Illini jersey next fall. Do we really have a shot at landing someone like Bill Walker or Herb Pope after waiting so long for Rose? Personally I don’t think we do…I hope we do, but I think it is highly unlikely. My biggest question is about the class of 08. Are there any quality small forwards taking a hard look at the Illini in that class?
August 10th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
EB: That’s no prediction. I was just doing a “back of the envelope” analysis of the season, and seeing if I could gin up some discussion of the season and its prospects. No takers so far.
August 10th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
RPIC Editor Boy: You should have used “its” not “it’s” (sic) in your response to Jimmy Chitwood.
I am not getting worked up about Derrick Rose. If he goes to Illinois, great. If he doesn’t, the media will blame Bruce Weber whereas those who know will blame big brother Reggie.
August 10th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Those rankings were nice to see. Now if we could offer ten scholarships I would feel better. I wonder why they are adding Illinois? Are they warming to the program or are they getting “no thanks” from others. (Please do not go into a diatribe about how these guys are wanted by everyone. I get they are highly recruited. But are they getting swatted away by the big boys and we are the bridesmaids or is Weber gaining momentum. Just a question!!! Please respond with some thought.) I don’t think anyone would rip Weber for getting the top player at three different positions. (Especially with one scholarship left. Now that would be truly impressive. I hope some of those guys are Juniors but I have not the energy to look). But we have ONE!!!!!!! verbal. Let’s tap the brake for God’s sake. The #16 ranked Center is more encouraging but I still think anyone over 7′ gets basically a free pass when scouts evaluate them. Every 7′ has the “could really develop, gain weight etc description. Still can’t name one that has. Cole at #39? Man those two ships are going to hurt us! Especially if the guys you list are really interested.
August 10th, 2006 at 8:29 pm
The one scholarship that really disturbs me is the Tisdale one. A while back a poster on this blog mentioned that Tisdale was being dominated by 6′5″ small school centers and we offered him a scholarship! My guess is he rides the pine and eventually gets some pressure to join the NAIA ranks. This guy reeks of being another Bret Melton. We will have the inside track on another player like Shannon Brown and the scholarship will be occupied until just after that unnamed player commits to a B10 rival. After that he will transfer to the wonderful world of 1-AA or NAIA. I agree with you KY Mike, that scholie will come back to haunt us. Bill Cole…the jury is still out with him.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:21 am
Ryan: Based on what I read about their head to head meeting at the U of I camp, and their Rivals rankings, I’d be more worried about the Cole scollie than the Tisdale one.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Anonymous #16: no, I don’t think we’re actually considering someone other than Rose for the last scholarship, and until he makes up his mind it’s a moot point anyway.
As I have already stated, the information I posted in #6 was from Rivals.com, and I didn’t say anything about favoring any of the other recruits over Derrick Rose.
All I was doing was relaying the revised recruiting rankings. Those kids can put any college that pops into their young heads on their list and there’s not a damn thing I can do about it.
What I think doesn’t make a bit of difference anyway, but I can tell you that I KNOW if Rose wants to come to Illinois, Weber will have a scholarship for him.
And to answer your question about quality small forwards in the class of 2008, I honestly don’t know of any. Rivals.com doesn’t list anybody from ‘08 yet and I haven’t bothered to look that far ahead myself.
I’m sure there is a good reason why Rivals.com doesn’t provide rankings that far ahead.
But if Weber is able to attract and have 3-4 quality guards on hand every year so he can run his motion offense properly, I’d rather see him recruit quality strong forwards than smalls.
Paul #17: I was just kiddin’ old pal, but after predicting 4 wins last season I’m staying away from that discussion!
Winston Smith #18: Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), or anankastic personality disorder, is characterized by a general psychological inflexibility, rigid conformity to rules and procedures, perfectionism, and excessive orderliness.
Treatment for OCPD usually includes psychotherapy and self help, and while medication is not normally recommended, Prozac has been prescribed with success.
Anti-anxiety medication can reduce your feelings of fear, and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (or SSRI’s), can replace your chronic frustration with a sense of well-being, as well as reduce your stubbornness and negative rumination.
Good luck, and pardon the hell outta me for not using correct punctuation.
KY Mike #19: I wish we had 10 scholarships to offer too, but until Weber can start talking top recruits into coming to Illinois AND paying their own way, it ain’t gonna happen.
As for your question of whether or not hot recruits are warming to the Illinois program or being “swatted away by the big boys,” I have no idea.
We had part of that discussion after the ‘04/05 season ended, when several of us predicted that orange would probably become the color du jour because of one successful, high-profile season.
But being on a recruit’s list and being PICKED by a recruit are two very different things, and like you, I just don’t have the energy to track potential recruits beyond the next high school graduating class.
If Rivals.com doesn’t bother to rank potential recruits before they’re high school juniors, why should we?
And I agree with you about 7-footers, mostly because I don’t buy into the old “you can’t coach 7 feet” argument. But I just can’t help but have a good feeling about Tisdale because I keep hearing good things about him from people who have seen him play.
(that, and as you have so often pointed out, I’m an optimistic sucker of a homer)
Personally, I was most impressed with Demetri McCamey’s jump to #9. He’s already a “solid verbal” (for whatever that’s worth), and if he turns out to be an underestimated diamond-in-the rough type (like Deron Williams), it would make a one-and-done Derrick Rose nothing more than a recruiting coup.
One final thing, Mike: you said “Especially if the guys you list are really interested.”
I REPEAT: I DIDN’T LIST ‘EM OR RANK ‘EM OR PUT ILLINOIS ON THEIR LIST OF SCHOOLS.
Don’t shoot me.
I’m only the piano player.
Ryan #20: so just because a poster on this blog mentioned that Tisdale was being dominated by 6′5″ small school centers, you predict he’ll end up being a wasted scholarship, huh?
I suppose that means your opinion that the jury is still out on Bill Cole is based on something else posted on this blog a while back too, huh?
Hell, Ryan… the jury is still out on every recruit listed on Rivals.com, including Derrick Rose, and passing judgement on ANY kid before he even sets foot on campus is careless.
When it comes to deciding if a kid is worthy of a scholarship or not, I’ll take Bruce Weber’s judgement over the opinion of any blogger every time.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
I do not know about Cole but I saw Tisdale play. It was in a Sectional semi final when he should have been at his best. Weber could have gotten this kid anytime he wanted. He could have been an after thought a year later. This is a nice kid but he belongs in a prep school trying to get use to playing against better kids. Right now he’s a mid- major freshman redshirt at best. He is not a junior commit of a top 25 basketball power.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Paul #17: I will go on the record and predict that if Illinois wins @Rutgers, it will find a way to win 6 games and be bowl-eligible for the first time since 2001. Otherwise, 4 wins maximum.
RPIC #22: Did you cut & paste all of that from Wikipedia?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
RPIC Editor Boy ~ My feeling about Tisdale comes probably from tb since he has seen him in person and because I played small school BB. I even played against a couple guys listed above 6′9″. There is a reason small school athletes are not pursued by the big time programs. I have a cousin who recently was named News Gazette POY. He was a 6′4″ small forward who averaged 19 ppg, 12 rpg, 6 apgand 4 steals pg! Not one large school called to offer him a scholie. Why? Because the competition he played against was sub par. In his defense not once did my cousin have someone who watched him play report that he was dominated by another player. He was always the focus of the other teams defense and still produced. Tisdale does not as reported by tb…against sub par competition! That is the source of my feeling about Tisdale.
As far as Cole goes…he faces considerably tougher competition. That is why I am not jumping on the “Cole is a wasted scholarship” bandwagon just yet. You are absolutely right that any recruit could be a total bust at the next level so technically the jury is still out on all of them. But with AAU and large school competition to play against some recruits are a better risk than others.
Again you are right that Weber is infinitely more qualified than most (especially me) to evaluate recruits. His record shows that he is more than capable of putting a winner on the floor (at all of his coaching stops). And to further buttress your point, if memory serves me correctly Webers recruiting classes are mirroring the snake-oil salesman. Ol’ Self won with Kruger’s recruits and then started bringing in guys like Roger and Luther (both lower half of the top 100). The next year he landed Dee, Deron, James, Spears and Wilson. Had he stayed we were in for the best recruiting class in history with Villanueva (sp) being the cornerstone. Weber has given us Brock (lower top 100), Carlwell (top 50) and now Gordon and hopefully Rose.
Thank you for stimulating my thoughts about Weber’s recruiting prowess. I guess I should just wait and see what kind of team he consistently puts on the floor before I give my opinion on who we should recruit. However, my gut still tells me that I am right about Tisdale.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
TB # 23 - I agree with you on Tisdale. I saw him play against Macomb in the supersectional and Macomb’s 6′4″ sophmore forward ate him alive. It was a physical game, but nothing compared to what he will see in the B10. I also talked to a gentleman from Riverton who is friends with his family and I couldn’t get him to say that he thought he would be able to play with B10 competition. All he would say is that he is very young for his class and that he is still growing. The man said he is now around 7′2″ for whatever that is worth. Just my 2 cents. I hope I’m wrong, but he has a lot of improving to do in my book. Who knows maybe he just had a bad game or maybe he is another Nick Smith. Won’t know until puts on an ILLINI uniform.
Todd
August 11th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
One biproduct of my recent statistical look at the Big Ten, was that I found that the Illini have the tallest players in the 4 and 5 star category, on average, for the whole Big Ten. And they have just as many 4 and 5 star players as anyone else.
I say Tisdale at 7″ plus and Cole, from an IHSA
Tourney champ together will be dynamite. The Illini recruits just keep getting taller and taller. And remember, sports fans, you can’t teach 7″. And you can’t teach the will to lead you team to an IHSA championship.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
The Rx man is back! I slipped the bloggers some happy, get-along pills that’s made this a peaceful blog.
A few years back, a Duke recruit, I want to say Lee Melchio(something or other), was part of the nation’s top recruiting class. Another top-notch recruit came along and Lee offered to walk-on, making Duke’s class even stronger.
(If anyone can fill in the blanks, please help me out here.)
Todd, if you can talk with those friends of Tisdale’s family, would you mind floating this idea? Mike, if you actually read these blogs, think about what you’d do for the program with such a bold move.
If Tisdale turns out to be a serviceable role player, i.e. Nick Smith or Brett Robisch, we should all be satisfied. But if he never cuts it, I can see the backlash on this kid, being a local and all.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
Nic ~ I believe it was McD’s All-America Michael Thompson who spurned the Illini and took Melchioni’s scholarship. JJ Redick, Sheldon Williams, etc…no final fours for the greatest class since the Fab Five!
August 11th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
I just looked at the football rankings and was surprised not to see the Illini! Bad joke I know…
What was surprising was to see West Virginia ranked so high. The whole political system can turn a skeptic into a cynic real fast. What if Michigan, OSU and PSU left the B10? Would that vault Iowa or Wisconsin to the top 10? What a joke…When does basketball begin?
August 11th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Another story about the on-going argument over which kid is now the #1 hot recruit in the land:
http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=159&p=2&c=555541
Something that is consistently missing from all these Rivals.com and Scout.com reports that is probably more important than anything else they consider in their rankings process: if a kid is a good fit for any of the schools on his list.
And there’s more to it than being a “good fit.”
Let’s say Derrick Rose falls victim to Bill Self’s charm and goes to Kansas, but a couple of the studs already on the roster decide to stay for 2 or maybe even 3 years.
What then?
To be sure, having 3 or 4 guys on the bench that could be starting for any other team in the top 25 is a GOOD problem.
For a coach.
August 12th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Nic #28 - I don’t know the man from Riverton that I talked to. I ran into him at a college day this spring for my daughter. He had a Riverton T-shirt on so I struck up conversation and asked him about Tisdale. Sorry, otherwise I would love to put a bug in his ear.
OK now I have taken some orange coolaid intervainiously (sp) and it feels sooo gooood and I am ready to make a rough football prediction. Illinois goes 3-1 in non-conference and wins 2 conference games for 5 wins this year…. If we are lucky enough to go 4 - 0 in non-conference we are bowl eligible. If we only beat Iowa this year I will be happy (just kidding I want to beat Iowa every year but I would be dissappointed with only one win). If we can beat Iowa we will win more than 2 conference games.
Todd
August 12th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Editor Boy - It just makes me nervous when they talk about a seven footer getting anywhere farther than about six feet from the basket. As I saw here in Dallas the best shooting seven footer on the planet (Dirk) is easly neutralized by a smaller guy getting under him when he is set up outside. One thing is set in concrete. A seven footer cannot handle the basketball well enough to dribble around anyone. Yes I know Shag has a fast break or two to his credit but that is noticed because it happens once a season. Smith couldn’t bang down low or dribble period. That looks to be the case with Tisdale. As for Cole again the history of thin, white, power forwards being impact players is well nil. Hate to stereotype but they seem to come true.
Illiniwis - You can’t teach height but height never scored a bucket in any league anywhere. Just like you can’t teach speed. But go ask Renaldo Neamiah how his head still feels and you realize if you aint got talent the extras are just potential. And all potential gets a program is giving minutes to a guy who never delivers.
On a happy note I can’t believe no one has mentioned the dodged bullet that is the Eddie Johnson story. Was I the only one who was dumbfounded by the initial story? I don’t know what a child molester looks like per se, but EJ never struck me as that kind of guy. Do you think the journalists could have said what team the guy played for in the initial article? I heard Skip Bayless just ripped our Eddie then had to do a severe backpeddle. That Bayless is the same guy who “broke” the Aikman is gay story. Two kids later Aikman is hiding it well don’t you think. Moral of the story: Skip Bayless is a hack!!!!!!
August 13th, 2006 at 2:49 am
Ryan, thanks for filling in my blanks there. I was actually looking at the top recruits interested in the Illini a week ago, and was delighted with how far Illinois has come. I won’t get into the Brock thing again, but that and the whole Tisdale thing is starting to chap my arse. We could be landing THE top recruiting class in 2007, but we may have jumped the gun on the Class A star.
However, I’ll take Cole. The guy led his team to the state championship game as a junior, only to get beaten by Rose’s Simeon team by a point.
Well, I got something up my sleeve. Editor Boy, anyway you can get my email from Tim Cain? I’d like to consult with someone.
That’s the way I ROLL!
(…which way am I going again?)
August 13th, 2006 at 6:55 am
To make clear what was hopefully clear from Kty Mike’s paragraph, the ex-NBA player named Eddie Johnson that was arrested for molesting an 8 year old in Florida was a 6′2″ guard from Auburn, not the 6′8″ forward from Illinois. A number of early media reports got confused, since they played in the same era, albeit for entirely different teams (our Eddie in the Western Conf; the bad one in the Eastern Conf).
On Tisdale, I have considered before whether Weber and Tisdale don’t have some understanding that if Bruce finds another use for his scollie that Mike might either go to prep school or walk-on. No basis for that; just a thought.
And on Mike and Bill, I think that one tall skinny project should have been enough; I don’t think we needed to take up scollies with 2. I do agree that Bill’s AA competition this Fall will be a lot better than Mike’s A competition; although I expect its unlikely, Mike should have, at minimu, transferred to a Springfield high school to play AA ball his senior year. Would have prepared him better for what is to come.
August 13th, 2006 at 8:04 am
I must be a bit clueless in regards to prep school. Can…Will a coach suggest prep school to a player that he offered a scholarship to that the rest of the world feels was a mistake? Won’t that be perceived as the same thing as pulling a scholarship? I have always heard that coaches won’t do that kind of thing because of the bad press. Now I am certain that coaches pressure sub par players to transfer after their freshman year (i.e. Bret Melton), but can they afford the press to do it before they even complete their senior season? I also have to wonder if Weber gives a scholarship to a kid who doesn’t produce (i.e. Calvin Brock) that he lives with his mistake and does not risk destroying a kid’s self esteem for the sake of his mistake. If he was that kind of coach you would think that Brock and Carter would already be gone from the program. I hope that Paul from Atlanta’s musings are right on the money. Who knows, if Tisdale goes to prep school we may all regret it. He could be exactly what Weber thinks he is, dominate and get lured to Iowa where he will be a thorn in our side. I doubt it though…
August 13th, 2006 at 9:56 am
To those fans who are down on Tisdale, having one of the best 16 centers in the U.S. who might be 7′2″ just can’t be a bad thing!!!
We all know that if Nick Smith hadn’t had that asthma thing, where he could only run the court for 4 or 5 minutes, he could have been much better. And a healthy Nick Smith coming off the bench, especially if he had a good attitude, would be a terrrific asset. Don’t forget, Nick Smith helped get the Illini to the NCAA finals when everyone else was in foul trouble.
If Tisdale is the kind of player who is really motivated to play for the Illini, and will do all the things that Warren, Shaun and Calvin refused to do i.e. practice his game, red-shirt when needed and be willing to come off the bench, then Tisdale looks like a heck of a “bargain” and addition to the team.
Somebody quoted an MSU coach who said “bit players make a huge difference”.
We can all think of many examples of when a willing sub, coming off the bench, has made the difference, and even more so if he is 7″ plus.
August 13th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Ryan - I saw Pitino run several guys from the program. Hell he ran Rocerick Rhodes for missing two (?) free throws to knock Kentucky out of the tourney. Rhodes was the teams leading scorer and he got booted before his senior season!!!! The other guy was a point guard from Mississippi that even the Miss St. coach hadn’t heard of (Carlos Toomer I believe). The guy was a complete disaster in the two minutes I saw him play. Even though his Dad said he was determined to make a go of it at KY that guy was never heard from again. Now they can make that excuse at Ky that it is an elite program and that’s what happens. We probably don’t get that kind of leeway.
As for Cole all I can say is - Marty Simmons!
August 13th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
I think you guys all make some valid points here. I just want to add one thing I feel is missing. Take Calvin for this example, ok? On occasion it’s not the coach who wastes the schollie..it’s the player himself who goofs away a great oppotunity. Calvin was a highly thought of Public League kid coming out of HS. And all he has done is spend a couple of years in Weber’s doghouse for what reasons I’m not sure…maybe poor defense??? Whatever it is, he has a couple of years left to get it right. Let’s hope he figures it out soon though. Just my 2 cents on that. GO ILLINI!! PS- I agree with Mike. Skip Bayless is a HACK and ESPN oughta fire his worthless butt!!!
August 13th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
Ryan #25: didn’t mean to put you back on your heels with my rant there, amigo.
Sometimes those north-of-I-80 types can really crawl under my skin.
Anyway, as mentioned earlier, I admit my hope for Tisdale is partly based on old-fashioned homer optimism, but Weber’s ability to spot talent overlooked by others served him well in the MVC, and I’m until he proves otherwise he has my full confidence.
Nic #28: long time no see my old friend.
Do us all a favor and prescribe some of that Prozac to Winston, eh old bean?
Ryan #30: Tupps’ column this morning (Sunday) was devoted to justifying his #1 vote for West Virginia:
http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2006/08/13/sports/mark_tupper/1017012.txt
KY Mike #33: yeah, 7-footers are notoriously bad ball handlers, but a lot still depends on how well a kid learns. Nick Smith was a solid player fundamentally, but was too stubborn to be coachable and was an asthmatic to boot.
I’ll admit Tisdale makes me a little nervous, but I must again defer to Weber’s judgement.
I saw that story on Eddie Johnson and must disagree on your assessment that Bayless is a hack.
That’s practically a COMPLIMENT!!!
Nic #34: I’ll have Tim forward your address to me and fire you an email.
KY Mike #38: I still say it’s careless to pass judgement on a kid before he even sets foot on campus.
Jeff #39: I get the impression that Brock is on Weber’s short list too, but you sure don’t hear anything about it. As chatty as Weber can be with the media, I think he and the boys must have a pretty strict “What Happens In The Locker Room Stays In The Locker Room” policy in place, which is how it should be.
I’ve always thought Brock displays a kind of casual, happy-go-lucky demeanor, sort of a class clown kind of kid, so maybe he’s just not taking things seriously enough.
I was bopping around some of the sports sites that I frequent this morning and found this to be both interesting and amusing:
http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9595271
August 13th, 2006 at 3:47 pm
Players with potential don’t always work out, but it’s foolish to say they never do. The problem is that we’re all stuck thinking about Nick Smith because he’s the last guy with that body type to come through the program. I’ll bet we would all be much more receptive if this were 2001 and we were all still thinking about Robert Archibald. Remember how skinny he was at the start of his freshman year, and how all he did was noodle around near the free throw line? The kid hardly averaged double figures in high school.
The thing that set apart Archibald from Smith was his attitude. Archibald was fiery and wanted to compete, so he lifted weights and bulked up, and by his senior year he was all-conference. Smith was never that interested in basketball, so he didn’t improve.
The Big Ten is full of players who lack any noticeable talent but still contribute, especially at the power forward spot. Witness Zach Puchtel, the Johnson brothers, Jack Ingram, and Brian Cardinal. They might not stun you with obvious talent, but there’s no question their team benefits from their presence.
Bill Cole sounds like he really has that fire from what I’ve read about him. He’s exactly the kind of ultra-competitive, talkative guy who seems to annoy the living you-know-what out of other teams. If he has a jumper to go with it, all the better. But I’m confident he’ll succeed.
Tisdale, on the other hand… I just don’t know enough about him to say anything. I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he turned out to be a contributor, but I just haven’t seen anything yet that convinces me that he will be. Ah well, there’s still plenty of time for that to change…
August 13th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Kty Mike: On the high school level, Bill Cole has a long way to go to even be Marty Simmons, who dominated at that level.
A word on Chet the Jet. We have had plenty of guards who came to Illinois and could not hit the broad side of a barn with their jumper as freshman. Some fixed it such that we forget (Derek Harper, Kendall Gill), and others did not (Bruce Douglas, for example, although he was a great player in about every other way). So don’t be surprised if the Jet, who has hustle, ballhandling, some passing and a little D on his side already, doesn’t come out this Fall, having worked all summer on his shot, and make you forget that he also could not throw it in the ocean as a freshman. If you think about Chet as a freshman, add a little polish and maturity, and a decent jumper from 18 feet, and I think that’s your starting point guard for 2006-2007. Now we just have to figure out just who among the big men he’ll be passing it to.
August 14th, 2006 at 5:05 am
RPIC Editor Boy v ~ I have a friend who lives north of I-80. He drives her nuts! We on the other hand live live just north of I-74. So don’t worry about apologies because I do not know it all…
August 14th, 2006 at 10:06 am
Proof reading would be nice…When I referred to “her” I meant my wife…ALWAYS PROOF READ…if you don’t want to look like an idiot !
August 14th, 2006 at 10:44 am
I’m still waiting for us to someday find the 6′6 slasher or the 6′9 leaping shot-blocker but to no avail. I guess we don’t grow them in Illinois nor do we know where to find them.
(Insersert more sarcasm) Seems like everyone else finds them but not us. All we get is 5′9 point guards, 6′0 shooting guards and 6′4 power forwards.
Yes, I know you will all send me what you think are great examples but please think before you write.
All I’m saying is let’s stop cornering the market on 7 ft. stiffs (can anyone say Jens) and get some athleticism!!!
X
August 14th, 2006 at 11:11 am
Ryan #44: not only can proof reading keep you from looking like an idiot, it can also keep an anal poster (who shall remain nameless at this time) from jumping all over your for incorrect spelling or punctuation.
You know… one of those north-of-I-80 types I referred to earlier.
A few random thoughts and musings…
Guess we now know why OSU didn’t look back over their shoulders after dumping Maurice Clarett…
A victory for old guys everywhere, but the same old “hindsight is 20/20″ for the Chicago Cubs…
In the first-ever meeting between a 300-game winner and a 700-homer hitter, Greg Maddux went deep, pitching 8 innings for a 1-0 win over the San Franciso Giants and King of Denial, Barry Bonds, retiring 22 of 25 batters in only 68 pitches (50 of them for strikes)…
And finally, this is hardly breaking news, but rather an update on a situation that has been developing at what seems like a snails pace:
===============================================
“Kansas City, Mo. (AP) - Kansas officials met with the NCAA for about seven hours Sunday in an effort to head off any harsher penalties than those the Jayhawks have already imposed on themselves.”
“A delegation including football coach Mark Mangino, basket ball coach Bill Self, athletic director Lew Perkins and chancellor Robert Hemenway met with the NCAA infractions committee in the Tremont Plaza Hotel in Baltimore, answering 11 charges of wrongdoing.”
“The school’s only public comment was a brief statement by Hemenway praising the committee for providing a fair hearing and saying a decision by the NCAA was expected in five to seven weeks.”
“Shortly after Perkins succeeded Al Bohl as athletic director two years ago, Kansas began an internal probe of violations that allegedly occurred during 1997-2003. The school self-reported violations involving football and men’s and women’s basketball, then put itself on probation for two years and reduced scholarships in both football and women’s basketball.”
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Notice how scholarships were NOT reduced for men’s basketball… a good thing for Mr. Self, who has set himself up for the juggling act of the century.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:50 am
The NCAA is so mad at Kansas, it will punish Millkin.
X Man, I agree 100%.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Millikin. My apologies to the Big Blue.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Man I don’t know about you guys but this looks like a tough year for the Illinois sports fan. Cubs stink as always, Cardinals are fading, Da Bears looked really bad Saturday, Illinois Football is well Illinois Football. Illinois Basketball is iffy at best. Wow its been a while since I couldn’t find anyone around here to root for. I may have to start painting or something.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
tb-the Chicago White Sox are the defending World Champions and look like a good bet to be in the playoffs again. The Cubs? HAHAHAHAHA!
August 14th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Hey Shark: Are your youngins’ on line? It appears that “bickering mode” is full throttle now, old friend! Woof, growl, woof!! GO ILLINI!!! PS- To bridget and/or bdawg: I must say that I do wish some of the previous posts had your last three words in them. But, alas, that would be too much to ask, I’m afraid. Sigh!!
August 14th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Amen sir Winston!
Now let me get one thing straight. The X-man LOVES Overachievers. Go hard or Go home I say. HOWEVER, I just don’t want my team and its players to HAVE to Overachieve to WIN.
Anyone get my drift!!
I’d rather get in the situation where I hope our guys don’t play below their abilities than PRAYING that they play OUT of their arse!!
(For some reason we are almost always stuck with the later - minus the 2 magical years).
X
August 14th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
tb ~ You will still root for your favorite team, you may not have as much to be excited about. Set some goals for the teams: 5 wins for Illini football is something to cheer about! We are heading in the right direction. 23 wins and a trip to the second round of the NCAA’s and we have had a good year with a rebuilding team. I don’t know what to tell you about the Cubs. And the Bears…too many prima donnas for me to even pay attention!
South Side Illini ~ On behalf of Cub fans everywhere…that was not funny!
August 14th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
On the 7′+ “stiff”, let’s see how Wisconsin does with Brian Butch, Greg Stiemsma and now the new guy J.P. Gavinski. All of these guys are in the mold of Tisdale, Cole (and maybe Semrau), i.e. tall, skinny, white, small town schools. Brent Musberger was rash enough to mention NCAA title for the Badgers (I think Brent is full of …) but maybe this Wis. team will really test the “tall skinny white guy” theory and answer it once and for all.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:16 pm
[...] 8/9/2006 Freshman tight end Jeff Cumberland was also an accomplished basketball player at Brookhaven High School in Columbus, Ohio, averaging 15.4 points and whipping down a school-record 76 dunks as a senior. [...]
November 1st, 2006 at 7:30 pm
Simple truth athletically I had as much talent as michael jordan off of one leg in highschool…Academically, I study my college school courses more than basketball plays.I always thought my athletic ability would take care of not knowing the basketball plays as good as the other point gaurd at kentucky when I played…Moral to this story is if you want to be good or great at something become a specialist in that area…