The intensity and emotion that fueled Tuesday night’s victory over Missouri was a distant memory. And even though Illinois got off to a good start Thursday night against Idaho State (leading 7-0 and 29-16), the Illini looked sluggish and slow going against Idaho State’s zone defense.
There was not much energy in the team and there was not much energy in the Assembly Hall. And Idaho State bombed in some 3s and eventually took a 46-40 second-half lead.
But sparked by Calvin Brock, Jamar Smith and some rainbow bombs from Chester Frazier, Illinois went on a 27-7 run and won 71-60. Smith had 21 points, Frazier had 13 and Brian Randle added 11 points and six rebounds. But it was Brock, who was able to be effective flashing through the zone defense, who sparked the rally.
Brock had just seven points and six rebounds, but it seemed like very point and every rebound came at the perfect time in the Illini surge.
Illinois played without leading scorer Warren Carter. He has a hip strain and is still questionable for the Dec. 29 game against Xavier in Cincinnati. Illini coach Bruce Weber said the injury, which happened Tuesday against Missouri, is apparently not as serious as first thought. “They’re saying a week to 10 days,” Weber said, which puts the Xavier game in doubt.
Illinois also appeared to lose Brian Randle again. He limped to the bench with 7:30 minutes to play and grimaced on a chair while trainer Al Martindale assessed the damage. After the game, Weber revealed that in a recent practice, Randle landed awkwardly and did the splits, breaking apart some of the scar tissue in his groin area from the surgery performed on Nov. 17.
That wasn’t necessarily bad, Weber said, “but it scared the heck out of him.” So Randle has been operating cautiously with some pain.
Frazier was 4-for-6 from 3-point range and hit a couple of improbable 3-pointers against the shot clock. He said blisters have caused him more pain than the turf toe and Weber amplified while saying that a blister and a callous formed on the bottom of his foot. The callous had to be shaved away and after the Missouri game, the bottom of his foot was raw and bloody. Again Thursday, Martindale put his foot in a boot after the game. Frazier also hurt his wrist against Missouri and had it taped for the Idaho State game, then tore the tape off when he thought it was restricting his shot.
So Illinois limps into Christmas break at 12-2 with only the Xavier game standing between this break and the start of Big Ten play Jan. 3 at Michigan.
Weber said the break comes at a perfect time.
“I am thanking God,” he said of the Christmas break. “I get there this morning and Warren can’t play, Brian might not play, Chester hurt his wrist. It’s just mentally grueling. I have my TV show in the morning and when that thing is over I am going to lay around and do nothing for two or three days. I do have to Christmas shop because I haven’t thought about that yet.”
December 22nd, 2006 at 1:29 am
It seems that I am repeating myself but it sadly once again bears mentioning… Calvin Brock is the antithesis of Rich McBride. While McBride plods around behind the arc waiting for the ball, Brock feverishly injects the Illini with a dosage of athleticism that they desperately lack. It was Brock’s infectious hustle that started their scoring runs and it was McBride’s benching that coincidentally coincided with the burst. I trust that Weber sees this trend and will respond accordingly.
Marcus Arnold continues to make me pine for Rodney Jones and Andy Kpedi. His previous ranking in my Top 10 worst Illini players of all-time was hasty at best, as I am moving him up to the coveted Top 3. As they say Marcus, it’s lonely at the top…. just ask Bricks Taylor and Robert Bennett.
Weber once again wins with the hand that is dealt him and though I believe that this team has no chance of making any noise in the Tournament, it should be fun watching young talent develop before our very eyes.
Merry CHRISTmas everyone… even you Marcus Arnold!
December 22nd, 2006 at 6:54 am
I think the team is doing as good as one could reasonably expect. I hope everyone gets refreshed and as healthy as possible before Xavier.
I’d say Coach Weber is getting a lot out of the troops, and they are just a few minutes here and there where they didn’t play well away from perfect.
December 22nd, 2006 at 6:59 am
Wasn’t it great listening to Lou Henson on the radio. He sounded great and full of energy. Merry Christmas to everyone
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:31 am
Mark, don’t underestimate the power of that Brian Cook video that was shown with 11:00 to go and Idaho State up 46-40. It was like instant energy for the crowd. After that, everyone was L-O-U-D and I think the players fed on a little bit of that energy.
By the way, I think I might have been behind you on I-72 on the way over to the game. I’m assuming your license plate sort of hints at who you are?
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:41 am
that is kinda harsh to Robert Bennett. Bennett was a good rebounder. Bad shooter yes, but good rebounder.
I think Rich McBride just missed another jump shot.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:05 am
I still say that this team is a work in progress and it is hard to declare them tournament worthy or not until all the pieces are healthy and playing together for a while. That being said, Frazier continues to amaze me with his heart and hit some big threes last night. He needs to work on his release at the foul line in that he seems to toss it without much rotation. Jamar looks like he is rounding into shooting form and has had two good back to back games. I kept waiting for Brock to enter and he played like I hoped he would. Randle is our best all around player and seems to be the steady influence that we need and comes up with the big plays at the right time….On the down side, I keep waiting on McBride to have a decent offensive outing. I was pleased to see him finally make one from inside the arc. He needs to add this to his repertoire like he did toward the end of last year. Meacham looks like he can only add to the mix when we are playing against slower and less athletic teams. Finally, Warren Carter needs to get well soon. We missed him badly last night where he could have hit some shots against the interior of their zone and possibly freed Pruitt. They were draped on him like a wet blanket. I also saw where coach yanked him when he tried to force matters. He needs to work big time on kicking the ball out when facing double coverage.
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:57 am
Last night’s game was a lose-lose situation. If the Illini win easily, the comment is “So what,they beat a smaller,poorer team.” If the Illini lose or win by a small margin the wolves would be out declaring that Weber should be fired for not prepring his team.
The timing of this game was terrible. Three days before Christmas and only two days after a gut wrenching win over Missouri had to leave everyone worn out.
Hopefully this game will be a positive and the team will continue to develope.
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:01 am
Last nights game, awful. Should have one by 30, but injuries play their toll. I love this team when everyone is healthy. A starting five of Smith, Frazier, Randle, Carter, and Pruitt with Brock the first one off the bench can play with anyone in the country. Lets hope Santa brings the team some ACE bandages and Bengay for Christmas.
Nick Smith is the worst player to ever play at Illinois. What a waste of height. Talent wise, he might not have been the worst, but to see him pouting at the end of the Arizona comeback because he didn’t get to play still disgusts me. I would have sat him the rest of the tourney.
Merry Christmas to all. Hoping Santa brings us another Big Ten Championship. Go Illini!
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:08 am
Tough game to watch except for — the continued evolution of Chester Frazier into a big time big 10 player; the work that Jamar Smith is putting into becoming and all round threat, not just a 3 ball guy; the will to win that Calvin Brock is bringing this year; the “he WILL learn to play through it” lesson that is being forced on Brian Randle; an actual penetrate, shoot and make it move from Rich; and the digging down deep that brought the victory last night. Some of our players have some limitations. It’s obvious to me that Weber knows exactly who those players are and what they can and cannot do and is dealing and winning. I know I know I know — we haven’t beat “quality” but time will tell. As a past middle aged sidelined college basketball fiend who got pounded on the court by her brother every time, I can only say “GO ILLINI.”
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:29 am
So….where are all the ex-spurts who, six months ago, were demanding that Brock turn in his scholarship?
December 22nd, 2006 at 11:32 am
Why do we play so many stumble bums. I just can’t see how this is helping us. Weber carried us by picking a cupcake schedule. Its time to put it out there and see what we have every time we lace them up. Enough Idaho States who’s next the Decatur school for the blind. This team looks like a fourth or fifth place finisher behind Ohio State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan State. Maybe a 9th or 10th seed and a first or second round exit in the tourney. I hate to lose Carter he is the story of the year but I can’t wait for Mcbride to graduate. Please Weber start Jamar and use Calvin all of the time and play the big freshmen. Please Coach thats all I want for CHRISTmas.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:19 pm
10. I’ll admit it. A few months ago i was terrified when Brock entered the game and I just want it known…..I was wrong. I think we should credit his vast improvement to two things. One-Coach Weber and his staff’s ability to get the most out of players.
Two-Brocks work ethic. No matter who is coaching, if the player isn’t willing to work at improving the best coaching staff in the world wont make the player better. Its pretty obvious that Calvin has been working really hard.
Not that Calvin really cares about what I think, but “Calvin, I’m sorry for doubting you”.
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Brock was the spark last night. Seriously, I’d have guessed he had twice that many points, they were all so big. I was a Brock doubter, too (though I never said it; I try to avoid the negative), but now I’m with Ken Riggs in being impatient for Brock to come in. Warcat might give him a run, but Calvin has to win “Most Improved”, at least so far.
Agreed, the timing of this game was terrible, a classic “trap” game. Given that and the injuries (I wondered why Randle looked so sluggish!), I’m proud of how our team fought back to win.
Oskee wow wow! Hail to the Chief!
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:40 pm
Kudos to Jack Frost for admitting he was wrong about CB. There are a lot of other Brock bashers, Jack, who I’m sure will never admit that they were wrong about him. They would be the same ones who are too impatient to wait for progress, the ones who want instant gratification.
It was not very surprising that Il. was flat last night after the emotional & physical game against Mizzou. The inspiration that the crowd got from Brian Cook on the big screen at the 11:00 mark was great to here about. Mark’s article this morning also said JS told BAM that he wanted to be more than just a 3pt shooter, which is encouraging to hear. He seems to get stronger every game. A week’s rest now will hopefully help heal some injuries. Merry Christmas! Go Illini!
December 22nd, 2006 at 3:15 pm
geezergeek,
I’ve already apologized and eaten crow for doubting Brock. He is now one of my favorites, especially for proving me wrong. With my orange goggles, I envision him as an All-American, Dwayne Wade type in his senior campaign. He’d easily be a double digit scorer if Weber would give him McBride’s minutes and run a few plays for his deadly midrange jumper.
Illini fans, let’s lay off Nick Smith and Robert Bennett. Smith, goofy as heck, actually won some gameS for Illinois with clutch shooting at the end of those games. For those 2-3 wins, not to mention minimal contributions in others, his tenure at Illinois was 100% worth it.
Robert Bennett couldn’t shoot worth a darn, but he performed his role well enough to start at least one year. That guy could jump as well as any Illini, past or present, and frequently energized those poor Illini squads. I remember a game where he jumped out of the gym, got undercut and landed hard, laid hurt on the floor for about 2 minutes, only to flip up off the ground and play the rest of the game. That guy played with heart! Lay off of him. No way either of these guys are in our Top Ten worst.
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Dear Santa,
We’ve tried to be good boys and girls this year here in the Illini Nation. Maybe a little bickering, but we’ll try to be better next year (right folks?). All we want for Christmas is:
A healthy Illini basketball team
A top 3 finish in the Big Ten this year (the championship in league play or the league tournament would be nice)
A berth in the NCAA tournament with a healthy run at the Championship (at least three wins please)
Some blue chip recruits for the next couple of years
We’ve got some other wishes that are not just for us, but for others also:
Please give Rich McBride, well lots of things, but maybe a desire to excel along with some consistency in his shooting coupled with a mid-range jumper.
Let Brian Randle play pain free with no fear of injury and the confidence to attack full out with fewer fouls.
Please give Jamar Smith improved defensive skills and the ability to drive to the hole.
Help Calvin Brock to continue to improve and some more playing time (& help him with his ball handling).
Give Chester Frazier an ability to drive to the hole with the knowledge to know when to dish it off (more consistency with his shooting would be nice too!).
Seeing Warren Carter continue to improve and play like he has so far against Big Ten competition would make us (& him) happy.
Please help Shaun Pruitt to constantly play with a fire in his belly, able to score to the left or right while knowing when to pass it back out.
Help Marcus Arnold to play for us like he did against us.
Please accelerate the learning curve for Brain Carlwell and C.J. Jackson so they can contribute, rebounding and scoring like we know they can.
Let Trent Meachum live his dream, find his shot, and improve his defensive skills.
Help Richard Semrau recover quickly and give him understanding professors that will help him recover from this setback.
Give everyone the ability to consistently hit free throws, a healthy dose of team chemistry and a little rest over the holidays.
Give Coach Weber some recruiting luck. Help recruits to clearly see how they would benefit from his coaching. Give him some voice in reserve for the upcoming season, some respect from officials and a little R&R time with his family over the holidays without any “incidents”.
What we really want this Christmas is for the NCAA to gain a little fairness and understanding, allowing us to keep the Chief as a beloved symbol of the University.
Thanks Santa. We sure love our orange and blue.
The Illini Nation
Wishing all of you a very Merry Christmas. May your wishes and dreams come true. Hope the New Year brings a little peace and understanding to this blog along with happiness and prosperity to all.
GO ILLINI!
December 22nd, 2006 at 5:03 pm
Maybe some of our recruiting in-state has less to do with the University’s reputation or past won-loss records and more to do with how we the fans talk about our past players. They wore the orange and blue, and by that alone, they deserve our respect, not our criticism.
Recruits want to be part of a family, with someone who’s got their back, not with a group that’s going to rip them now and in the future.
Just my 2 cents worth.
December 22nd, 2006 at 6:59 pm
WRF #16 - Good Post! Not to be greedy, I would be happy if Santa can fill half of the items on your wish list. I believe in Santa, but I don’t think he has the ability to bring any “fairness and understanding” to the NCAA. So as an alternative I ask Santa to provide the University Trustees with “Huevos Grandes” and a good lawyer. Maybe then the NCAA could be forced to obey their procedures and operate within their charter. It is embarrassing that the North Dakota Sioux have more moxie than the Illini.
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:02 pm
remember olaf blab? I agree with some of the other bloggers, Brock’s energy and hustle was the key to the win. He seemed to bring life into the crowd and the team. McBride is a big mystery, in high school some people thought he wouldn’t stay the whole four years. He was considered one top recruits to ever come to Illinois. It seems that he just matured early and hasn’t got much better than he was in high school. I feel for the young man and I hope he can have a good senior year and people will not be so harsh on him. I agree he should’t be starting, but I think he can help coming of the bench. I didn’t think Illinois would be as good as they are now and I’m happy to with the progress of this team and proud to say I.m an Illini fan.
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:13 pm
My Christmas wish is to hear more of these kind of stories and buzz around baseketball (this came fron the chicago Tribune).
Though Martez Wilson — the state’s top-ranked recruit — already is the third top-100 recruit who has committed orally to play for Illinois next season, earning Wilson’s nod on the heels of a 2-10 season is a remarkable achievement. It’s more remarkable considering who Illinois beat: Notre Dame, Ohio State, USC, Michigan and Miami.
I don’t want us hit rock-bottom, but I would love to hear that we landed then next great recruit over the likes of N.C., Duke, UCLA, etc.
That would be a very Merry Christmas.
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:12 am
I just read posts 1 thru 20 and I would like to say I honestly enjoyed every dang one of them. Merry Christmas to everyone and GO ILLINI!!!
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:16 am
In post #14, I had a weak moment & took a shot at the worst of the naysayers about doubting CB. After thinking it over, I realized that I was probably somewhat skeptical about his talents also, although I never acknowledged it here, only to myself. That would make me a hypocrite concerning this topic. I must have just wanted to lash out at the biggest naysayers. There are probably many generally positive Illini fans who doubted CB too who I apologize to if I offended you.
I, too, hope your Christmas wish list comes true, wrf, & I agree that bashing former Illini players for their shortcomings is counterproductive. Who knows how many recruits read this blog?
Merry Christmas! Go Illini!
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:48 pm
According to Scout.com, with the 18 commitments that Illinois has, they are ranked #7 in recruiting class and possibly higher depending on future commitments and also on what other schools do.
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:05 pm
A lot of you may have missed out on this USA Today article on the different paths or career turns between McBride/Iguodala taken from their high school days at Springfield Lanphier to the present when McBride was a much bigger star than Iguodala. It was on the USA Today a couple of days ago and with the change of blogs ocurring so fast, it was probably missed. It contains quotes by Weber and their high school coach. I had posted a similar article a couple of weeks ago on the development of Deron Williams of the Utah Jazz and some bloggers twisted the positive article into a criticism of Weber for calling Williams a whiner. I hope they don’t take a similar stand on this article, which while not as uplifting as Williams’ article, it still goes on to define success in life as not necessarily NBA success, but as to whether one goes on to lead a productive life. I thought it portrayed Weber as a coach who stands behind his players and who gives them a second chance in life.
Link
December 23rd, 2006 at 4:03 pm
A couple of questions for all to ponder around the dinner table this holiday season:
Who is the backup pg? I hope Mr. Mid-Major’s inability to recruit a quality backup doesn’t cost them an important game this year.
Why does UI have no presence in the Chicago Public High League? Kruger didn’t get anybody during his tenure & I’m afraid Brock will be the only player we get for some time. It’s a shame Mr. Mid-Major chose not to offer Patrick Beverley a scholarship. The kid de-committed Toledo because he wanted to play in Champaign. Hopefully Mr. Mid-Major realizes he made a mistake.
Why don’t ANY freshman play - ever? Smith didn’t see major minutes until late Jan. Frazier, Brock & Pruitt didn’t see major minutes at all. I’m sure Carlwell will play less than 75 minutes this year. Maybe this is why Mr. Mid-Major is a less than effective recruiter. Freshmen don’t play for him & I’m sure other coaches let the kids know that.
When will the program land a consensus top 10 recruit? My guess is it won’t happen in Mr. Mid-Major’s tenure. Sorry to his apologists on this board & in the media but I forsee Self owning the state of IL as long as he coaches & Mr. Mid-Major’s failure to seal the deal w/Gordon & capitalize w/PHL coaches on getting Brock being very detrimental & an unfortunate sign of things to come.
Zook is making it cool to play at UI, I wish I could the same about Mr. Mid-Major.
Merry Christmas to all & I hope to see a lot of orange in Cincy on the 29th.
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Nice job by the great OSU recruits at Fl. At least they kept the losing margin to under 30.
December 23rd, 2006 at 8:15 pm
#25 - I was just going to ignore this post in the spirit of Christmas, but I did a reality check and just had to respond. Most of the questions have been previously raised (almost verbatim) so I am unwilling to restate all of the previous discussions. However, I do think that the one about not playing freshmen is somewhat original and deserves a response.
I believe that BAM tells all of his players that they have to earn playing time. That is difficult for freshman because they are young and in a totally new environment. Let’s review:
Brock redshirted but even in his RS freshman year he was horrible. Like others have stated on this blog, I cringed whenever he entered the game.
CJ Jackson - same goes for him right now. Hopefully he can make the kind of strides that Calvin made before his sophomore year.
Warren Carter - Did not really earn playing time until this year, and for obvious reasons.
Jamar - Started to get a fair bit of time after the Oregon game (early December) as a true freshman, and quickly proved he deserved it. But his defense and ball handling still need some work which he acknowledges.
Chester - As a true freshman, was backup PG to Dee. Should Weber have benched Dee to play Chester? My guess is that Chester learned a lot more watching Dee than he would have making turnovers in a new environment.
Shaun - Similarly, a backup to Augie for two years. The year to year improvement has been dramatic, but as a freshman he had two left feet and hands of clay.
Brian Randle - I have loved this kid since the day he put on the Orange, but as a freshman he had trouble defending and seemed to blow some very easy shots.
I watched a part of the Ohio State game today, and Oden was frequently out of position and made some plays that I am certain Matta was not happy with. I would certainly give him lots of playing time, but a freshman is still a freshman.
So when BAM does not “promise” to give recruits all the playing time they want, he is being honest and doing the right thing for team chemistry.
Now I have a question: Why do so many people on this blog think that they know more (and could do better) than a 101-18 record? And why is 101-18 not good enough to count our blessings instead of ponder our misses? I think a reality check is definitely in order; do it!
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:31 pm
Christmas has come early. It’s just in the form of monster football recruits.
Currently on Scouts:
1. texas
2. florida
3. USC
4. Notre Dame
5. Georgia
6. Nebraska
7. ILLINOIS
8. Tennesee
9. Michigan
10. Georgia Tech
Those are some programs that you’d like to be named amongst. Probably have to patient again this year. Our moral victories last year will materialize into real victories. But there’s no reason why we won’t be a Big ten contender in 2008.
DIF will have to find a new hobby.
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Hey tOSU! We’ll take that crown back now. I guess you are not the annointed ones.
How could this happen? Isnt this a bunch of 5 stars?
I dont know about the rest of you but this makes me doubt what I read here.
86-60? Are you kidding me? Where I come from that is called “being taken to the wood shed.”
December 23rd, 2006 at 11:23 pm
Tough day for some B10 teams on the road today, with Michigan looking lost against UCLA and OSU getting run out of the stadium by Florida. I know UCLA and Florida are great teams, but I was a little surprised in the lack of competitiveness by both Big 10 teams. I guess it is another “off year” for the B10.
After the OSU/Fla game, a few thoughts:
-Wisconsin should be the favorite to win the conference this year, OSU is too young.
-Greg Oden should be much better when he is healthy, since his main offense today was the dunk shot.
-Illinois should have a shot at beating OSU when they come to Champaign in January if they have their guys playing well.
Thoughts on OSU?
December 24th, 2006 at 2:07 am
It’s only December, so it means absolutely nothing…but how I would LOVE for this trend to follow through the season to further silence the critics:
Q. What do Illinois and Ohio State have in common?
A. Both are 0-2 vs. ranked teams this season.
The comparisons stop there. Would you believe that the Illini have more wins vs. the RPI Top 50 than the highly ranked Buckeye squad (2-1)? How about Ohio State playing a MUCH easier schedule (rank #113) than Illinois (#65)? Makes you wonder why Ohio State’s #3 in the nation and Illinois isn’t ranked!
Now, before you hit your keyboards…I’M NOT SAYING ILLINOIS IS THE BETTER TEAM! December numbers don’t translate into March success. But for the doom-and-gloomers and Chicken Little of central Illinois, it’s funny how this “mid-major-coach-who-can’t-recruit” has urged this team to this point despite the slew of injuries.
Again - it’s only December - but are you a bit nervous if you’re Ohio State? You have a week to sit with this horrible loss, with only a guarantee win over lowly Coppin State separating you and the Big Ten season.
And an 0-3 Big Ten start for the Buckeyes isn’t out of the question. They open vs. probably the league’s 3 best defensive teams (vs. IU, @ UI, @ UW) and they’ve shown an adversion toward playing defense on their own vs. better opponents (98 pts. to UNC, 86 to Florida). Their best win to date is over Loyola of Chicago, which would be nice…if this were 1962-63!
December 24th, 2006 at 3:57 am
Jake # 28…wrong, again, my friend and don’t count your chickens too early because Neither one of our two well-established standards (i.e., sustained excellence and national championship for our programs) have been met as of yet…and I doubt they ever will as long as Mr. Guenther is around.
We have had plenty of abberations of these kinds in the past history of the Illini sports and, frankly, they don’t cut it any more as we shall not settle for any thing less than our above mentioned standards for the Illini sports. And while these kinds of abberations may impress you and other homers, they are nothing but mere yawners to us real fans who strive for and demand sustained excellence and national championships for our Fighting Illini.
So, take a deep breath, relax and enjoy your very low expectations because we’ll be around fighting hard on behalf of ALL Illini fans to bring REAL success to ALL our sport programs.
Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
December 24th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Nice early Christmas gift that Florida stomp on tOSU. You just got to love that! Don’t think that will happen in Football. Calvin Brock is one great player. He just has to get a few more games under his belt and watch out. We sure missed W. Carter! Pruitt will be ok when the Big Ten starts and hopefully so will the rest of the walking injured. Go Illin!
December 24th, 2006 at 10:49 am
I too was tempted to take a shot at tOSU. Sure I took some satisfaction seeing them taken down a notch. Drew some “OHH-ver-RAY-ted!” chants from the Florida faithful. But they are awfully explosive. If the O&B don’t bring their A+ game when tOSU comes to town, it’s not going to be pretty. By A+, I mean first 15 minutes vs. AZ. So they’ve shown what it takes to be Big Ten champs, albeit in short spurts.
December 24th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
#32 DIF - I absolutely agree with you that the rank of the recruiting class is rather meaningless until we see if the product on the field improves or not. But wouldn’t a couple highly rated recruiting classes in a row, at least, signal the potential for improvement. I mean would we rather have the 100th rated recruiting class? Merry Christmas dude. Perhaps, things will finally turn in football.
tom b.
December 24th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
I’d like to comment on the childish name calling by “reality check” in post 28. Callig Coach Weber Mr. Mid-Major is an insult to a head coach who has accomplished more in his first half decade of coaching than just about any other coach in recent history. It is also an insult to a lot of quality coaches around the country. Didn’t Bill Self come from mid-major Tulsa? Didn’t he have a losing record against Bruce Weber there? Mike Krzyzewski and Bob Knight coached at Army. Look at the resume of any college coach and you will find a mid-major entry.
I question the loyalty of a fan who resorts to name calling because a few high school kids decided to play basketball somewhere else. Every state has kids that don’t go to the state university and succeed elsewhere. Are the Texas coaches failures because they didn’t sign Deron Williams? Let’s keep some perspective, root for our Illini and mature past the name calling.
December 24th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
The fact that Horford from Florida took Oden to school can only mean bad news for Illini. Oden will now stay in school longer than one year before leaving for NBA, even if he is guaranteed to be number 1 pick in next year’s draft. Besides, OSU got top 25 recruits coming in 2007 and 2008 at the center position.
December 25th, 2006 at 9:07 am
Was Ohio State that bad or is Florida that good? Florida has been like Illinois in that this was the first game they have all their players back. Florida is a team that won the national championship last year and have 5 starters and 2 reserves back from that team. They could have 3 first round draft picks this coming year and have one of the best coaches in the country. Their 3 big men are as good as there are in college basketball. Plus Olden played with one hand, he shot his free throws with his left hand. I was at that game and Olden was surrounded all game. Don’t write Olden off this year he is very good, but He looks like he’s 30+ years old in person.
December 25th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Where did Oden (OHIO State) come from? He looks like he is 30 Yrs old.
December 25th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
I wonder what we would be saying if our center was playing with a broken hand?
Looks to me Ohio State plays ZERO penetration defense. If we had guys who really took it to the hole I would be encouraged. While everyone here seems to be looking ahead if the Illini look ahead against Michigan they will get beat.
Good to see many “positive thinkers” are calling others names. If you use negative names to describe others does that make you positive?
As for Calvin Brock I would like to give my previous postiion as “?”. I don’t remember him playing really at all. I wondered how a guy with his high school stats couldn’t get on the floor at a position we were desperately thin at. One blooger asked the question about freshman not playing. Someone responded about Weber telling the truth and all that. I don’t think it’s any more difficult than Weber likes veterans. Period!! There are many coaches that just don’t trust rookies. Not a crime necessarily but just a philosophy. And yes that stat is being used against us in recruiting.
Jake - Go look at the 60 plus teams that went to bowls this year. South Florida? Western Michigan? RICE????? Yeah I think a Guenther party is long overdue!!!!
Funny how nobody mentioned Kansas drilling Boston College who beat Maryland! What do you say we try to beat Xavier who has a loss to Bucknell?
December 25th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
dennis L. #27
“Why do so many people on this blog think that they know more (and could do better) than a 101-18 record? And why is 101-18 not good enough to count our blessings instead of ponder our misses?”
Dennis, I have a question for you? what good is a .822 winning percentage if we dont get 5 star recruits? Don’t you understand that the real way to measure a teams success is by what star recruits they can entice to come and play for one or two years and then leave for the NBA?
…. and blessings? what blessings have you seen in and around this program over the last 4 years? Please…… if you think a runner up to the National Championship, 5 players in the NBA, and some of these other annomolies are blessings, then you arent really a true fan. No true fan would be content with a coach with a .822 winning percentage. You my friend need a reality check…. and boy did you come to the right place.
There are REAL fans here that know all of this is just a mirage and possibly a hideous conspiracy by Ron Guenter to reduce the Illinois Atheletic progam into rubble. If you just read these guys unchallengable arguements you will soon see that you are just not expecting enough out of your Illini.
I have seen the light and now know that if only Guenther, Weber and Zook would just listen to the wise words of the sages writing here, we could be a real ELITE program. We could get 5 star recuits like Kansas does year in and year out, and match their post season accomplishments. Wouldnt that be great!
Of course the real objective is to win the recruiting battle. Once that is accomplished, winning games really doesnt matter. Just get us the 5 star recruits and POOF! we are elite.
Dennis, I appreciate the orange Koolaid cocktails that you must be drinking and admire your pie in the sky attitude but please, educate yourself by reading the writings of Ky Mike, Xavier McD. Only then will you find what it is like to be a true fan.
How dare you be satisfied with 101-18. Don’t you want us to be Elite?
December 25th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Bart #41 - You are right! My bad. Good post! But you left out one thing. If only BAM had offered and signed Patrick Beverley, then we would have the Public League coaches on our side and we would be on the way to elite status. The fact that you also “missed it” means that Weber is not the only one who makes major mistakes. Also, we should all be listening to the opinions from that highly-respected guru, “Anonymous”.
December 26th, 2006 at 2:25 am
Bart Ridings #41…Long essay you wrote to make fun of the Illini fans with high expectations! However, here is the real question that you and other kool-aid drinkers avoid to answer, where is the beef? Where is the Illini national championship in any of these major sports? The sad answer is that ther is “none”…”zero”…”nothing”.
You folks just don’t get it…do you?
December 26th, 2006 at 9:11 am
Dennis #42
“If only BAM had offered and signed Patrick Beverley, then we would have the Public League coaches on our side and we would be on the way to elite status.”
An excellent observation.
Do you ever wonder if the Beverly camp ever sent a transcript to Arkansas? I suppose we could have offered without the transcript and then lost him right about now to grades.
December 26th, 2006 at 9:29 am
DIF - here is what is sad. You describe your Illini experience as “sad”. The fact that a National Championship is the key to “happiness” for you (and others)is a bit sad in itself. I am a season ticket holder and love every minute I get to spend in Assembly Hall soaking up the atmosphere and history. When I was in St. Louis at the Final 4, and with 3 minutes to go against Louisville and the realization hit me that we were going to play in the National Championship I was happy … really happy; not pulling my hair out about how we were going to beat Carolina or Michigan State.
I believe in being thankful for what I have. I dont believe I should look at something great and wonder why it is not the absolute best or perfect. That is what you are asking for… perfection.
Do I want an Illinois National Championship? yes. Does my happiness depend on it? no. I am very happy with the state of Illinois basketball, because I remember when what we have now would have seemed unlikely. Now it is the expectation. These players and coaches work hard and give me my moneys worth each time I see them. If they didnt, I wouldnt pay for the tickets.
And each time I go into Assembly Hall and look around, I see alot more people like me then like you.
December 26th, 2006 at 10:49 am
Hey Bart,
I take it by the sarcastic tone of your recent post that you ARE in fact satisfied with the current state of Illini athletics (primarily football and men’s basketball)? Sorry you are so offended by people that actually want to win a National Championship and push their team towards that goal. Yes it was great that they made it to the National Championship game but that was supposed to be the beginning, not the end. I believe that most of the people that you mock on this blog would be more positive if they believed that the team was building on that success. However most of us see this team headed the other way. And I won’t even address the football team until they are bowl eligible (hopefully that will be in my lifetime).
December 26th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
Bart: I guess it’s OK to be happy going to the Final Four every 15th year or so and playing in a bowl game every fifth or sixth year (depending on the number of bowl games), but if one does not strive for perfection, one is likely to never come close.
What we have right now is a basketball team that would compete for a conference championship were it in the Missouri Valley, not the B10. No one questions whether Coach Weber can coach - he has proven that time and again. We probably have one of the 3 or 4 best X’s and O’s guys in the business. But as Bob Blackman proved over and over, you can coach em up all you want, but if you don’t have the horses, you’re not going to WIN the race.
WE NEED PLAYERS - B10 players - NC players - not Missouri Valley players. Whether Freshmen play or not is irrelevant. Whether you beat Belmont and Idaho State is irrelevant. As we have seen in the recent past, whether you win the B10 may be irrelevant in the NC scheme of things. In basketball, one or two Top 25’s (recruits) with some very good role players will get the job done, especially with a coach the calibre of Weber. I think, as Illini, with the loyalty and blood we have sweated for this team and this school over the years, we have the right to expect that our basketball program have 1 or 2 Top 25’s on every team every year. That should ensure we are not only competitive in the B10 CHAMPIONSHIP RACE every year, but that we are also Final Four worthy every year whether we get there or not.
And if we, as fans, do not demand it, then who will? I will guarantee you that if Michigan does not have a team that is at least worthy of NC consideration in football EVERY YEAR, the fans, the media, the alumni and the high school coaches would crucify Lloyd Carr.
Frankly, it’s the pursuit of demanded perfection that motivates the great ones to remain great. And it’s the lack of that pursuit that keeps the mediocres mediocre.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Thanks Illini Tony and DIF for summing things up. Your sentiments really are the central argument on this board and many of the folks just don’t get it.
EX. My favorite comment on here that I heard recently was saying that WE “negative” folks were only interested in “immediate gratification” when it comes to wins and the development of our programs. I’m not sure if that is the funniest or dumbest statement I have ever heard. If by immediate gratification , they mean a championship in my lifetime, then yes count me as one of the “negative” folks.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Why does everyone on here hate Guenther so much? I don’t get it. The future looks great to me because we have two great coaches in Zook and Weber. Guenther brought both of these guys here. I still think I am dreaming when I see the football recruits that are coming here. Amazing. You look at the Florida team which consists of a majority of Zook recruits and I am feeling great about our future. Believe me, no one has been more disgusted with the football program over the last 10 years than me. This is the first time I feel good about this program in a long time. We’ll just have to see if Zook can coach now.
Weber. I am so tired of everyone bashing him over recruting. Wake up. Jon Scheyer has wanted to play for Duke since he was a little kid. Even with Weber’s brother as coach, we had no shot. Eric Gordon. Another kid who grew up wanting to play for Indiana. He is an Indiana kid. A poor coach in Mike Davis almost let us get Gordon. Unfortunately, we only had an oral committment and we lost him. I was angry because Gordon backed out and we passed up on alot of other recruits because we held that scholarship for him. Not Weber’s fault. Derrick Rose. Wanted to be a guaranteed starter. Weber said no. Memphis said yes. I’m glad Weber sticks to his guns and makes everyone earn their spot on the team.
We are truly blessed with a great basketball coach. Why does everyone on here have to rip him so much? He has integrity, class, and he can coach. As long as he wins, who cares what recruits come here. Everyone says we need to get all of the Chicago Public-League kids. Am I missing something? How many All-Star NBA players came from the Chicago Public League? No, not Wade. He went to Richard’s in Oak Lawn. I used to live two blocks away. Not exactly inner city Chicago.
I do feel that Weber needs to get a former Illini player on his coaching staff. A Sergio McClain or Kenny Battle type would be great, but I am not going to bash Weber for not doing so. It’s easy for us all to sit here and feel like we could do a better job, but it’s never that easy. All Weber does is WIN. That’s all that matters to anyone. The bottom line.
I watched the Illini-Arizona tourney game on Christmas day with my family. Down 15 points with 4 minutes to go against a great Arizona team. No other coach could have won that game. Weber is amazing. He never gave up on his team. He kept coaching. The great Lute stopped coaching. I wouldn’t trade Weber for any other coach in the country. I just hope everyone will judge him on wins and not recruits. Like a draft in football, you can’t truly grade it accurately until 3 or 4 years later. Lets see where we are then instead of crucifying Weber now. Go Illini!
December 26th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
One last thought. Nick Smith is the worst Illini player ever. Watch the last 5 minutes of the Arizona tourney game. Every bench shot shows Randle, Pruitt, Calvin, etc. jumping up and cheering. And you see Nick sitting there pouting. Why? Because he didn’t play. Frye would have destroyed him. Even when the game was over, all of the team was hugging at center court and Nick is just standing there… pouting. What a disgrace. Other past players may have lacked talent or heart at times, but no one quit on there team.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Two high fives to Bart for posts #41 and #45.
Wasn’t it you who warned me not to “feed the animals”? Well you got them all excited and are feeling their wrath. And really, darn you for being entertained! That’s not what sports are for! It’s actually an opportunity to be thoroughly dissatisfied! Why can’t you simply bemoan every missed shot and every turnover? Why can’t you see every missed recruit as spit in your face? Be angry! You’re a man aren’t you? Only perfection may be enjoyed! It is a fact!
Thank you Lemon Krush. You work hard every day. You speak out proudly on this very low visibility blog. You have gone right to the source. Such a great example for some of these false fans. Change is right around the corner. I feel it. There’s no way your constructive criticism buried in the herald-review Mark Tupper blog archives will be missed. Your logic and clever thinking makes me proud to be a alum and fan of the O&B!
I will not be optimistic! I will ignore the promising “coaching up” of Brock and Carter. I will ignore the near misses with a young and injured team. I will forget past successes. I will ignore the super human recruiting effort by Zook. I refuse to beleive this is a step in the right direction. And even if it was, it’s way to slow. I demand all new leadership who can bring a National championship to Illinois right now. No not March 2007 and January 2008. NOW! I mean today. It’s 2:51 and more than enough daylight to make it happen. And if they can’t, Lemon Krush says “Step in to my office. Cause your freaking fired!” We demand excellance, not excuses!
December 26th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
“And each time I go into Assembly Hall and look around, I see alot (sic) more people like me then like you.” -bart ridings
Yes, I believe these are called “fans”. As in “Boy the fans are loud and orange tonite and sparked the team to give 100%!”
“I think, as Illini, with the loyalty and blood we have sweated for this team and this school over the years, we have the right to expect that our basketball program have 1 or 2 Top 25’s on every team every year.” -Marlin
I believe this is called “delusional”. As in “Boy is it delusional to think that an Illinois fan cheers harder for their team than a fan of any other team, and is actually entitled to the service of elite high school prospects.”
December 26th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
To clarify, X-man, my use of the term “immediate gratification” is meant to be applied to the expectation of a few of you who think we should win a NC in the next year or 2 after being in the championship game. Only time will tell if we are headed in the wrong direction, as Illinitony said. That can only be speculation based on recruiting & nothing else. If we were 2-12 instead of 12-2, I would agree that we are headed in the wrong direction. Until then, why not give this team a chance? We all want the same thing, but all of the negative ranting on this board will not change a thing. You all may have chased away some recruits yourselves by the way you’ve trashed BW here. Because of today’s electronic world, I would venture a guess that many recruits are aware of this board.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
As we near the end of the non-conference season, it’s not a bad time to look back and evaluate how the season has been so far, even though we still have a game left to play.
On the bright side, things have not been nearly as bad as they looked like they might be with Smith and Randle hurt and McBride suspended. The self-proclaimed “realists” who, even before Frazier and Pruitt were hurt, predicted at least five or six non-conference losses should take a moment to recognize that they were wrong.
Ignoring the eyes of beholders, there is plenty of evidence that this team has played solid, if unspectacular, basketball. We’re ranked 11th by Pomeroy’s ratings, 29th by Sagarin, 33rd by Greenfield, 14th by Sonny Moore, 30th in the RPI, and rpiforecast.com ranks us 23rd in the nation with a predicted finish of 25th in the RPI. So, the consensus among computers is that we belong on the cusp of the top 25 based on our performance so far, ignoring the obstacles from our various injuries.
This team has been marked by inconsistency, both between games and within; Pomeroy ranks us 276th in the nation in consistency between games, and we’ve all seen the inconsistency within them. So, in putting together a pretty solid season to date despite inconsistency, we must be very good in our hot stretches. Even in our two losses, there were long stretches where we outplayed our opponents. This says to me that, if we trend towards more consistently playing at the upper end of our abilities over the course of the season, as most teams do, then we have a great deal of room for improvement.
That’s no guarantee that improvement will take place, though, as anyone who remembers football season will tell you. Now is the time for Weber to earn his salary; if we have the potential to play very well, then it’s Weber’s responsibility to make sure it happens. I hope the perpetual optimists on this board will recognize that Weber simply hasn’t done well enough at making this team play with consistent intensity on defense, nor has he done a good job so far in cutting down on our turnovers on offense.
Finally, I’d like to address the people who want a national championship right now. If you look at the guys who win national championships, they almost never won the first time they got near. You first have to establish your team as a consistent contender that goes to the Elite Eight or Final Four every few years. As a program that has only been to the Elite Eight twice and the Final Four once in the last 17 years, it’s unrealistic for us to expect our coaches to have produced a championship. The steps we need to go through to make progress are to go to the Elite Eight and Final Four again and to solidify the gains in our fan base. If we aren’t meeting those standards for progress, then we’re failing; otherwise, develop some patience and tone your criticism down to a reasonable level.
December 26th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Bill Arter - If they were 2-12 then you would be concerned? Holy Crap!! Your never going to catch a big fish with that much slack in your line! Since our record will not be as good as 04-05 then it is also speculation that things are going in a positive direction!
My God the stop bashing Weber hysterics. Are you people related to him? Brooksy, your quoting things you’ve heard said. Do you really think a guy as confident as Rose was scared to compete against Chester Frazier? If Weber said your going to have to compete, Rose crumbles at the thought of going one on one with Chester Frazier? No bleeping way!
Jake - Why the Guenther Hate? (I don’t hate him since I don’t know the guy)
2006 Bowl teams: TCU, N. Illinois, BYU, Oregon, Troy, Rice, S. Florida,East Carolina, New Mexico, San Jose St., Tulsa, Utah, Arizona St.,Hawaii, Central Michigan, Mid Tennessee, Florida St., UCLA, Oklahoma St., Alabama, California, Texas AM, Rutgers, Kansas St., Clemson, Kentucky, Missouri, Oregon St., South Carolina, Houston, Minnesota, Texas Tech, Maryland, Purdue, Navy, Boston College, Iowa, Texas, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Nevada, Miami, Penn ST., Tennessee, Auburn, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, W. Virginia, USC, Michigan, Oklahoma, Boise State, Wake Forest, Louisville, LSU, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, W. Michigan, Southern Miss., Ohio, Ohio State, Florida.
I count three directional schools and two schools who fired there coaches even after going to a bowl!!!!! Illinois is the only school where an AD has to fire two of the three football coaches he has hired and he is considered a success!!! He also has had one hoops coach leave early and according to many “fans” hired another coach who can’t coach only recruit. So on his coaching hire scorecard if you count Weber as a success and Zook as unknown then Guenther is batting a smoking .200!!!!! If you count Zook then he really gets hot at .333!!!!! I can’t understand why DIF is so disgruntled?
Signed: 38 years of seeking instant gratification!!!!!!
P.S. If you force me I will post all the team with multiple top 25 programs (football, mens and womens hoops) not pretty either!!!
December 26th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Bart Ridings #45…I don’t mean any disrespect, but reading your honest explanation about your support of the IL current sports programs with your hard-earn $ and enthuse tells me that you are the nightmare of an Illini fan to those of us who are trying hard to change the current miserable system at IL.
Looking at honest and trusting, yet misguided fans like you is a clear indication that the incompetent and decietful Guenther has finally succeeded in his efforts of fully “dumbing down” the fans and getting away with his now well established “culture of losing” at IL…in short, smart, intelleigent and loyal fans like you have actually accepted his BS and continue to give him a pass…ouch! How could you?
It also goes to show what a difficult task we (who are trying to change the system) have ahead of us in dumping this most-damaging individual-ever-to-the-Illini-sports (Guenther).
With fans like you around, it is frightening to think about how much longer we have to put up with this “loser” of an AD!
December 26th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Again, KY Mike you have hit it onthe head. DIF gets a lot of heat for his anti-AD stance but the proof is in the record. Your point about multiple schools with multi Top 25 programs is also one that I don’t hear brought up enough on this board.
People don’t realize that success breads more success. If we don’t think that the success of Ohio State football (for example) has helped their Basketaball and other programs we would be kidding ourselves.
December 26th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
I feel sorry for you guys that can only see your favorite teams’ short comings. I feel sorry for your family and coworkers. Someday you’ll wake up and realize it’s not the finish line that matters, it’s the journey. But you’re obviously not going to take my word for it, so you’re doomed to keep waiting. It makes me sad.
What is happening in the football program is unprecidented. We are stealing recruits from Notre Dame! We’re going to have future first round draft picks on next years team! How is that bad? Enjoy it! It’s just as easy to ignore the bad as it is to ignore the good, but way more fun.
December 26th, 2006 at 11:23 pm
According to Scout.com, Josh Brent from Bloomington central Catholic has committed to Illinois today. He is the #80 rated prospect in the country and a defensive tackle. This is really great news and I don’t mind stockpiling great prospects and would not second guess Zook, but with D’Angelo McCray, Josh Brent and Martez Wilson, and still going after Marvin Austin, the #1 prospect in the country and a defensive tackle, are they overloading at the tackle position and neglecting other positions of need? Never thought that Illinois would have this problem though, and it sure is great to be in that position.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:08 am
Jake, I for one am excited about the football progress and hopefully good things to come. As I said above, I think it is a package deal. Actually, we should probably be complaining more on these blogs about football than basketball.
One thing I do find curious is the lack of questioning from fellow bloggers on how we are landing all these recruits. As you said, it is “unprecidented”. If this was happening in basketball from say Memphis (who is already far more successful in basketball than we are in football) we would be screaming as if our heads were on fire. God forbid if it was Indiana as well.
I am praying that everything is on the up and up and as I said am excited about next year and beyond. I guess I am just venting a curiosity and a request for some consistency on this board.
Perhaps as good as we seem to be in football recruiting is as bad as we seem to be in basketball recruiting???
December 27th, 2006 at 12:11 am
Jake #51,
I do apologize for “feeding the animals” after lecturing you about it. Recently I realized that glass half full people seem to be being overrun on this site. I decided to follow your lead and try to give them some of their own medicine.
Judging from their pats on each others back, they are feeling pretty strong.
Reading this blog is quickly becoming a waste of my time. Quite frankly, it depresses me almost everytime I read beyond Tuppers article.
Thanks for the High Fives and keep sticking it to the trolls.
Let me address one now - DIF #56
“….those of us who are trying hard to change the current miserable system at IL.”
If this isnt the saddest thing I’ve read for awhile….. at least you finally admit what you are doing. I guess we all should know already with signatures like “disgusted Illini Fan” and “Fire Ron Guenter”. So this is a concerted effort to slam the blogs with your yelling points. No wonder we hear the same thing over and over.
The funny thing is that you think you can affect the sports leadership of the U of I. Wow, I had no idea that we were being read and pondered by the powerbrokers at the University. Lets assume that you can…. do you then concede that your constant harping might possibly discourage one of your prized 5 star recruits from coming here? Which is boys? You cant have it both ways. Either you are the power brokers that affect change at the highest level for our beloved school or you are not. If you are then you must also be running off those cant miss recruits as well….oh wait, that is Weber that does that, not you guys.
Get real. You guys gotta quit taking yourself so seriously. “…trying to change the miserable system at IL.” This is funny stuff. I’d say “keep it coming” but I dont need to.
signed,
nightmare
December 27th, 2006 at 9:02 am
Thanks for the entertainment. Almost as good as Daytime Soaps.
December 27th, 2006 at 9:44 am
#56 DIF,
Why would I think you mean any disrespect when you include me in a group that you call the “dumbed down” fan base of the Illini? None taken.
So let me get this straight. If I and other “dumbed down” fans would not buy the season tickets or not buy tickets at all, then we could have empty seats in Assembly Hall and Memorial Stadium and that would show the University that we need to get rid of RG? Do I have that right?
…and what effect would this have on recruiting? I guess those 5 star recruits would see a game on TV or even visit the University and see all those seats and think, “Yeah, I’ve got to come here to play. Look at the support the fans give this team.”
Not so much. I think I’ll stick with my plan.
Do you go to games? I take it that you protest the current situation by with holding your hard earned $ and buying tickets. I have a strange feeling that if you attended games in AH right now you might not feel the same. The energy around the program is second to none and is a great experience at every game.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:25 am
Since you always like to argue, Ky M, or let’s call it debate, I’ll play along with ya. I switched the 12-2 & 2-12 numbers for ease & emphasis, but I’ll break it down for you further since you took that so literally. If the Illini record was anything less than 10-4 right now, I would be disappointed but still very happy to be a fan. Since some of you had predicted 5-6 losses for the nonconf. games, which you haven’t addressed yet as someone earlier pointed out, 12-2 sounds great right now.
Now, to address the ultimate in cherry-picking by comparing any season to the 37-2 record of 04-05….. Since Il. was only the 2nd team to ever record 37 wins, I doubt that anyone will be doing it again anytime soon. If you are seriously trying to say that our program is headed downhill because we haven’t equalled the 37-2 record the last 2 years, you are indeed setting a very high & hard to attain standard. Good luck in finding another D-1 team that can go 37-2 every year.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:54 am
To all the people who think like #32 & #41. WHo believe that .822 winning is not good enough, that runner up to national Championship & 5 players in the NBA is for losers:
You maybe just pulling or chain. But, if you are not, I would like to say the following.
1-Do you realize that you may never be happy. You’r standards are to high. You’r standards make great goals, but poor standards.
2-Could you live by you’r standards at work, home or play? I think not.
3-You may achieved more than I at work, home or sports, but I question if you are happy.
4-I hope you enjoy life now. If not, maybe you need to re-think what your standards are and make them goals.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
I want Ron “Football Guy” Guenther fired for his gross incompetence in overseeing the football program, the main revenue sport. 64-106-2. 4 bowl games in 15 years on the job. Two Big 10 wins in the past 4 years. At any other school, he’d be fired. But the loyal zealots think he’s great! Hey, let’s give him a raise! The Board of Trustees did that.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Jake and Bart and my fellow optimistic fans….Sorry for the extended absence from posting. It has been a welcome Christmas break from work and…more importantly, from all the negative postings on this blog as of late. I agree with you, Bart. It is simply not as enjoyable to read the postings as it once was. I mean, how many times do I have to read DIFs thoughts on Ron Guenther? (Hint: We get it, okay?)
Or how many times do I have to read a posting from Reality Check from his immature and asinine name-calling reference of “Coach Mid-Major”? (Hint: We understand that you want the re-incarnation of John Wooden as our coach. Enough!!!!
And don’t get me started on the whining, self-absorbed, instant gratification, woe-is-me attitude of Xman, IlliniTony, Jimmy Chitwood, etc. WE UNDERSTAND, GUYS!!!!!!
I have REPEATEDLY asked all of you genius “realists” as you call yourselves….for some real solutions. WHAT would you do if you got your ultimate wish, fired Ron Guenther, and installed yourself as A D for a week. (Not a year…because you expect results NOW!) WHat would you do?? You seem to have all the answers. I have asked this question to ALL of you before, but in classic whiner fashion you would rather gripe and moan instead of come up with solutions. The only relevant idea I have ever see from your crowd is to hire a former player like Sergio or Kenny Battle to assist with recruiting….which is actually a good idea.
So here is your chance. Real ideas only…not the usual complaints and slogans. WHAT WOULD YOU DO???
I am breathless in my anticipation from all of the expert “realist” coaches, ADs, and general basketball know-it-alls out there.
And if you don’t have any solutions, can we agree to tone it down and talk some BASKETBALL or FOOTBALL on this blog for a change??
Lastly, Jimmy Chitwood…you do a phenomenal disserviceto his name. Go back and watch the movie. He wasn’t a complainer…he just wanted to play basketball. He was a winner, not a whiner. Your post is so typical of your pessimistic crowd…both on this blog and in real life. You can’t just enjoy something good like Coach Zook’s success, can you? You have to poke and prod and try to find the negative in it? You need to take Jake’s advice and try to enjoy life.
An Illini fan who enjoys life every day……
December 27th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Kentucky Mike…I accept your 3 sport top 25 challenge for….say….men’s and women’s BB season ending 2006 and current football season. Take the top 25 for each of the 3 and cross-reference them. I think the list is much smaller than you think. Here are 5 “vaunted” schools in our own back yard that don’t make the list…just fro starters:
Michigan, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, and Nebraska.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
#66 - FRG - We now have someone who has time to post on Mark’s blog that is smarter than BAM, smarter than Zook, smarter than the AD, AND ALSO smarter than the Board of Trustees. Also, he can evaluate an AD better (probably having never met him) than the trustees who have dealt with him on a regular basis for many years.
Have you ever heard the phrase “walk in my shoes”? The logic is that until you have done a task, it is very difficult to understand the complexities of that task. Maturity will solve your problem if you ever get there.
December 27th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Here is a direct quote from the net again supporting the claims that BAM’s “uptight-tough love attitude is scaring away recruits”
Speaking about his decision to go with the Illini over his more prestigious suitors, Wilson told the Chicago Tribune he felt comfortable with the Illini’s coaching staff — specifically Zook. “I like this dude,” said Wilson. “He wasn’t an uptight white coach.”
See uptight bloggers. The reason that we are GETTING ALL THESE GREAT RECRUITS is that Zook is recruiting them exactly THE OPPOSITE OF BAM.
Now homers let the whining responses began.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:41 pm
The optimists and pessimists seem to have good points. I certainly wish that Illinois nabbed more big name recruits so I could be spend the down time between games excited by these little mini-dramas of whose going where and how great so and so is going to be next year for the program, etc. I was incredibly disappointed to lose Self, who was not only a good recruiter but a likable guy. I’m disappointed at times when U of I doesn’t get notoriety or good poll ranks because of the lack of hoopla around the program. Then I realize that I’d rather be an Illini fan disappointed by poll numbers and not getting enough attention than be a Kansas or Mich. State fan who has to go all season listening to the media hype their teams and players only to consistently underachieve when it counts. Maybe M.State fans can watch the 2000 title game over and over again, but I wouldn’t take their last three years. Sure we had a tough lose last year, but how has Kansas faired?
Good programs go 12-2 to open off seasons. National Championship programs don’t stay National Championship programs, but fall back to mediocrity along with everyone else (i.e. Duke). Will Webber get us there, maybe not. But I’m confident in his ability to get Illinois into the tourney even in a down year. To me that’s a team worth rooting for.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
To more pressing issues. Does anyone have info on how Warren’s doing? And does anyone wonder if Randle has come back to soon? Maybe he’s being dramatic, but it looks like he’s struggling out there.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
#69 Denis-Not once have I criticized His Holiness Guenther for hiring Weber. Nice try sweetheart. Yes, I can do a better job than Ron Guenther than 64-106-2 in football.
December 27th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Has anyone heard of this Theron Wilson who is a Juco player that wants to play for Bruce Weber and the Illini?
December 27th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
I’m more than a little disturbed by the quote from Martez Wilson in post #70. For starters, that kind of racism is unacceptable for a person representing the University of Illinois. I don’t get why society continues to tolerate racism as long as the racist is a minority. Second, it’s clear that Zook has instilled the attitude that life at Illinois will be comfortable and easy. Even the most talent in the world won’t win games if they decide to take it easy.
I hope Zook does well for our program, but I wouldn’t cry if he got canned tomorrow. Every year we have Zook on staff is a year that we’re risking embarrassment to the university in the name of the almighty buck, and I don’t like the feeling that we have a salesman instead of a head coach.
December 27th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
Jake #52: If you don’t consider yourself a cut above the rest, you will never be better than the rest.
No, it’s not delusional. It’s called a Final Four. Why is it that Duke, North Carolina, UCLA and a few others seem to make repeated trips to the FF, but not Illinois. Are you telling me we don’t have access to that kind of talent? I refuse to believe it. Our facilities are just as good if not better. Our instate talent is just as good, if not better. We have proven that we can attract the kind of talent to Illinois that will get us there.
All I’m saying is that if we, as fans and supporters don’t demand it, it won’t happen.
Pressure? You’re damn right. It’s also called motivation. Jim Valvano was once asked about a dental plan by a prospective assistant. He said, “Yes, we have a dental plan. If we don’t win, the alumni kick our teeth in.”
You don’t win NC’s or B10’s with Missouri Valley talent. I don’t care how much you love your coach, how hard you cheer, how much money you donate, how long you have been a season ticket holder, or what your current record is against lower level schools. Without the talent, the Final Four is out of reach. And I think we should start to demand FF appearances more frequently than once every 15 years.
And that, my friend is not delusional. It’s called Illinois Basketball. It’s where we should be.
December 27th, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Just an observation, but during this holiday time the negative naysayers have been so active…why aren’t they celebrating this joyous season with their loved ones ? Or do they not have loved ones ? Could that be why they have so much time to concentrate on writing all of their negative blogs ?
December 27th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Bart #63: Just what 5-star basketball recruits were you referring to?
Bill #64: And your point is…? I should be happy with 12-2 against schools I ‘ve never heard of? Hell, I thought Belmont was a horse race and Idaho State was a fictional school in a TV sitcom!! How are we doing against legitimate “Big Dance” contestants?
December 27th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Optimist #71: Mediocrity? Maybe MSU could rewind the NC tape from 2000? Maybe they could watch the FF tapes from 86, 88, 99, 01 and 05. Duke - mediocre? Try 86,88,89,90,91,92,94,99,04. I’ll take half that much “mediocrity” from Illinois and never post another item on this blog!! (These are all FF’s, BTW)Every 5 years in the FF, and a perennial contender in their conference is NOT mediocrity, my friend. It is what we all should be after in Illini-land.
December 27th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
DIF- Again, I thought the Krueger and Self hires were good hires by RG, and who would you have hired vs. Zook, given the available landscape at the time? I personally thought Zook was far and way the best available (given that Urban Meyer was going to Florida regardless). It also looks to me like Zook is proving his mettle as a recruiter. The jury is still out on his “on-field” coaching ability, but we are headed for perhaps the best recruiting class in the B10 since maybe Butkus - Grabowski. And look at his other accomplishments - the basketball complex, the athletic administration building, Memorial stadium renovation (with a 64-106-2). If Zooker gets us into a bowl game in the next 2 years, I will declare the football program headed in the right direction. It takes a lot longer to recruit 22 guys (plus special teams) than it does to recruit 5, 1 or 2 of which can put you in a FF.
December 27th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
F R G - #73 Then why don’t you answer my challenge in post #67? You were one of the “realists” it was directed at.
Still waiting for the rest of the “armchair Athletic Directors” out there……
December 27th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
Turning your attention to real sports news, here is a quick article on Josh Brent from today’s Daily Herald:
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/illinois.asp
Enjoy and be joyous in this news!!
December 27th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
CJBehrle(65) 32 was serious & 41 was being sarcastic.
You’re making me dizzy, X-man(70), with the editorial license you’re using & the conclusions you’re jumping to to try to make some kind of point. Now BAM is uptight? You are funny, man.
You all used to make me angry, but now you are just laughingly entertaining. I entered some of your posts at a new website called Ultimate Whiners.com. DIF won an award for saddest person to still be a fan. X-man won an award for baddest dude….only because he had told everyone that so many times & Ky.M won for smartest dude….same reason as above. BTW, if you have to tell people that you are bad or smart, to put it colloquially, YOU AIN’T. Looking forward to the next entertaining, spinning commentary from the very vocal minority since you guys put things in perspective & make me realize how little I have to complain about in life.
December 27th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
#65 CJ Burle
I wrote post #41 and if you go back and read it you will see that I was pulling a chain, not yours though. I was trying to point out the holes in the trolls arguements that post here.
You, my friend, I am in agreement with. I like your post and have had many of the same thoughts about the constant carping and complaining we get from some here.
Unfortunately, #32 wasnt pulling your chain. This is truly his position as he has stated here over and over and over and over and over and over …..
Welcome back A. Bill! Things were getting a little ragged around here without you. I’ll keep up the fight if you will. I like your challenge. You of course, will not get any responses because their only answer is to complain. I use to have a boss that told me don’t bring be problems; Bring me problems and solutions. Well, lets here those specific solutions.
December 27th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Marlin - #78 Good posts today, but I will make 2 counterpoints to 2 of your comments:
Idaho State, in recent ESPN ranking, has the 73rd best basketball program of all time. Now you may consider that low, but since there are 65 teams that make the tourney every year, that means on average they are on the peripheral of teams worthy of the tourney. In addition, they have made the big dance each of the last 6 years. Just wanted to point that out, in fairness.
Ragarding Jim Valvano (may he rest in peace), he was also the same “prestigious” head coach who got down on his hands and knees and begged 18 year-old Shackleford to attend N C State.
Pathetic. And they hold a tournament in his honor?
December 27th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
#67-My first move would be to fire Theresa Grentz. Next move-lighten up the football schedule with cupcakes rather than games against Missouri in St. Louis. Men’s basketball-talk to Bruce about getting an ace recruiter on staff/
December 27th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
….so Fire Ron Guenthers first move would be to fire someone? No way.
Replace Grentz with who?
Put cupcakes in the schedule. Maybe its not you but someone on here is beriding Coach Weber for scheduling cupcakes. Which is it going to be?
On talking to Bruce about an ace recruiter - just have Ky Mike handle this. He has Bruces ear.
December 28th, 2006 at 10:13 am
Bart #87 - Ky Mike would probably do one helluva job. But, alas, only coaches can recruit. So unless there is a position on the staff for Ky Mike……..!!
As for “Fire Ron Guenther”, I’m just glad I don’t work for FRG. I would be afraid to do anything.
I wonder if FRG would want Coleman back. He needs to be careful what he’s wishing for.