Thought I’d drop in my column that will appear tommorow (Tuesday) morning. I’ll try to blog pretty regularly this week with the Big Ten Tournament opening on Thursday, Selection Sunday looming and the start of March Madness just around the corner.
Here ’tis:
CHAMPAIGN – Bruce Weber doesn’t read newspapers or dial in talk radio shows during the Illini basketball season.
He’s too busy to clutter his head with the opinions of columnists and talking heads, many of which would only make his blood pressure climb.
But between assistant coaches and eagle-eyed friends in the University of Illinois sports information office, he is kept abreast of stories he needs to know about.
So it goes without saying that Weber is aware of criticism directed at him in the wake of an automobile wreck involving players Jamar Smith and Brian Carlwell. Two felony charges have been brought against Smith and Carlwell is not yet ready to return to action after suffering a head injury in the incident.
Weber’s handling of this incident, and two others that have occurred during his four-year tenure as head coach, have kept folks yapping. And while sticking to the university’s strategy of saying very little on the subject, on Monday Weber talked in general terms about the non-stop effort to convince young people to make good decisions and the frustration he feels when they don’t.
Toward the end of his weekly press luncheon with the media, his voice rose in volume, nearly cracking at one point, before a full-blown rant ended abruptly when he marched briskly from the media room.
Quite obviously, Bruce Weber had some venting to do.
More recently, two Illini football players were arrested and on Monday pled not guilty to four counts of residential burglary and two counts of residential theft. Later Monday, both were dismissed from the team.
Weber was asked about the importance of the public image presented by the university’s athletic programs.
“It’s very important,” he said. “You take a lot of pride in it. But at the same time, they’re kids. They make mistakes. You can go years and years with nothing and now, obviously, we’ve had a year with a lot going on.
“Is it luck? Or no luck? I can’t speak for other coaches, but I know how we constantly harp about it, talk, lecture them, have people come in and lecture them, have group sessions, individual sessions in which we talk about taking care of business and what’s at hand.”
Weber said he believes the elevated profile athletes have can make them feel bulletproof to trouble.
“I’m not sure sometimes they think anything can go wrong,” he said. “Life’s going along so good. It’s like people playing with the stock market, they keep going and going and going and, like last week, boom!
“My mom always told me every time I got into trouble, it was God sending me a message. I got hit by two cars. I ran into walls. I was in the emergency room 14 times by age 17. I was energetic, I was hyper. I wasn’t a bad kid but I was always in a mess.
“She said, ‘He’s slapping you down before you get killed.’
“I haven’t been in an accident in a long time so I hope I’ve slowed down, although when I shave and drink a coke at the same time I’m steering my car, people riding with me get afraid.”
Weber said “98 percent of the time” his message to players after a game centers on making smart decisions the rest of the night. When practice ended on Feb. 12, he told players a blizzard was expected and that no one needed to be out on the streets. Hours later, Smith wrapped his grandparents’ car around a tree.
Weber pointed out that athletes are not the only students on campus involved in alcohol-related offenses.
Just last Friday, more than 100 students were asked to appear in court for their actions in the Unofficial St. Patrick’s Day event that seems to pride itself on excessive drinking.
“Kids drink, it’s part of college,” Weber said. “I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. Today it’s the party games, the binge drinking. I think we all have to be alarmed.
“I know with my daughters, I talk to them all the time. Between my wife and I, we lectured my daughter four times about the St. Patrick’s Day thing. I can’t live with her, so I have to hope she makes good decisions. I try to bring it to their attention whenever I can.”
Weber said he feels bad for Director of Athletics Ron Guenther. “I know how important this is to him. He does a great job managing us and helping us. We have a great life skills program. We have lecturers coming in. We have a program for incoming freshmen.
“The image of the athletic department is pretty good overall. The graduation rates, the community service… We won an award a couple years ago for our life skills and community service program.
“Our APR (NCAA Academic Progress Rate) for basketball is one of the best in the country. I think we’re No. 1 in the Big Ten in basketball.”
Indeed, published Academic Progress Rates for 2005-06 show that Illinois is one of 36 schools honored nationally in men’s basketball, a list that includes no other Big Ten Conference schools and also does not include so-called “academic” schools such as Northwestern, Stanford and Duke.
All that is fine, Weber said, “but if kids screw up, they have to be held accountable.”
Weber, Guenther and the university make those discipline decisions and will do so in the case of Jamar Smith, although they seem to be willing to wait until he has his day in court.
Weber also pointed out that “a kid in a program got arrested a couple weeks ago and he played in the next game.” Without naming him, Weber was referring to Michigan’s Lester Abram, who was stopped for speeding, then arrested for an outstanding warrant. That happened two days before Abram played for the Wolverines at Illinois.
“I don’t know if anything was talked about with him,” Weber said, his voice rising. “I don’t think so because I get a lot of feedback. You’re going to hold us to high standards but that kid got arrested and he played.”
When asked who he was talking about, Weber blurted, “I’m not going to get into it. But there was a kid you know who got arrested and he played a game. If you can’t figure it out, maybe you’re not doing your job,” which seemed to be a veiled reference to columnists who have suggested he’s not doing his job as effectively as he could.
And with that, Weber said, “See ya,” and walked out.
As rants go, it was pretty mild. But it was an indication that bubbling not far under the surface is a lot of emotion that has built up daily since this trying and testing season began. On Monday we saw a little of the steam. The molten lava is still somewhere in there.
March 5th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
“But at the same time, they’re kids. They make mistakes. You can go years and years with nothing and now, obviously, we’ve had a year with a lot going on.”
Hey Bruce..they arent ‘kids’.
They are men.
We got guys in the military, just as young as your players, some younger..that are conducting themselves like men.
Treat these players like men.
Does Weber think he’s coaching some high schoolers? Maybe Nick Smith was right. Weber is a high school teacher.
And I love how he just disregards drinking…”I’m not saying its right or wrong”…
Is this guy really the guy leading the team?
Get rid of him.
March 5th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Good for Bruce!
March 5th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Good article, Mark. I’ve said before that there have to be student-athletes at schools all across the country that get in trouble & we never hear about it. I think BW has a right to be a little steamed. Illinois is NOT a rogue school. Let’s put things in perspective, people.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
My guess is that the people who criticise Weber,Gunther and other men and women in leadership roles with young people have never given a minute to youth leadership.It,s to sit on the sidelines and take shots at Public Figures.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Good Job Tupper! Coach Weber has every right to show a little steam. His own fans and the media in his own area has speared him easily on the words of the press and the message boards all too readily.
Coach has shown a great deal of restraint. Can you imagine the “great” Coach Knight’s response to all the ill-pointed press to these situations? Wow! Coach Weber, The A.D. and The University will do what is best for the program; I believe that!
Get off their backs, you aren’t the coach, shoot-many of you aren’t even very good fans!
Michael: Tiger/Illini
Clemson, SC
March 5th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I am saddened by this latest irresponsible act by the elite athletes of our teams. I am an I-FUND donor whose donations fund these athletic scholarships. Alcohol (mostly underage drinking) seems to be at the root of each incident. It’s time for the university to place specific conditions on these scholarships which include abstaining from illegal activities including UNDERAGE drinking. Zero tolerance is the best deterrent. Should the university fail to tighten it’s policies in this manner i will regretfully be unable to continue my donations. I will also fore go the 13-16 day trips per year from the Chicago suburbs to attend these sporting events.
Post
March 5th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
No accountability from Weber. Shocking. The players know they can get away with bad stuff and not face serious consequences because of the way he’s handled prior incidents.
Contrast that to the way Zook swiftly gave Ellis & McPhearson the boot.
March 5th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Just finished watching the local news on WCIA-Champaign. Of course, they were talking during the sports segment about the football players’ day in court.
I don’t remember if it happened this past season, or two years ago, but they kept showing the clip of Derek McPhearson slamming the head of a Penn St. opponent…*repeatedly*… for no apparent reason. (Guess what? McPhearson was one of the players involved in that burglary/ theft!)
That kind of behavior is inexcusable and that kid should have been kicked off the team immediately after that incident, IMHO. Glad to see he’s finally gone.
I hope BAM hangs in there, though… I still think he is a great coach and every program occasionally goes through some tough times.
Zoik
March 5th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
I hope we don,t lose a very good coach, and a fine gentleman. He gets very little credit for what the he and the team has done during his tenure. There are many positive aspects that are not emphasized about this program. Let Bill Self go. Stop bashing Weber
March 5th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
sorry, DIA Parole Officer, I don’t think many are going to put a lot of stock in a quote from Nick “pouting crybaby” Smith about the coach.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
No, they are college kids. College kids. They’re not men in some macho-chauvinistic sense to which you’re trying to allude. They’re college kids, like me. I’ve done some pretty stupid things in my time and I’ld be the first to admit it.
What sort of stupid crap did you do in college? Or did you go to college?
March 5th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
If “kids are kids” then a few things come to mind:
1. Why have we seen more off-court incidents under Weber than the previous 25 years and 3 coaches COMBINED?
2. Why isn’t every program in the country having multiple incidents like this? After all, their kids are just kids.
The reality: If Weber and the coaches constantly tell the players to make smart choices, and they EXPLICITLY said not to go out the night of the snowstorm because of the weather and they disobeyed him anyway, he clearly doesn’t have their respect. If he did, they wouldn’t have gone out drinking and then driving.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Oh, and other students may get in trouble for drinking, but most other students are
a) not getting a free ride, and
b) not as visible to the community as the basketball players.
Basketball players are more visible and held to a different standard. That may not be fair, but it’s the price of a free education.
Dee Brown said it best when he was back for the Northwestern game: when you walk out of your front door, it’s not about you. You’re representing your team, the University, and the community. That’s the deal, and you have to act accordingly.
We’re missing leadership like Dee on the court, and off.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Just got back from Kentucky. The “buzz” in Lexington is that Tubby Smith is out & Bruce Weber will be their next coach. Their fans are excited to be getting a “winner.” How’s that for a turn of events?
March 5th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
dear DIA’s Parole Officer.
Get off of your high horse. Why don’t you look a little closer into what some of those “men” fighting in Iraq have done. My brother was over there twice, which I am assuming is 2 times more than you. ANd the stories he tells me would makde your skin crawl compared to the things kids on this basketball team has done. And last time I checked, 19-20 year old college KIDS are NOT considered full grown men. And I guarantee you if you polled all men who went to college to look back at themselves as college students, 99% of them would say they were NOT men at the age of 19, 20 or 21.
Please keep your high & mighty opinion to yourself, because it’s pretty obvious you know NOTHING about what you say.
Thanks Mark for the article, it’s nice to see Weber slap back at the columnists who think that they are both untouchable & unfallible.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
Comparing college kids with those in the military is simply being blind. Military people are in a completely different environment. There is no way to create the same environment in college unless you’re Robert Montgomery Knight or playing for Air Force or some other military group. Keep things in perspective.
I don’t feel that Bruce is really proving any point though. It’s simply him showing that he’s frustrated with how things have gone and, to me, it’s obvious that just when things have starting dying off a bit, the two football players incident just brought the magnifying glass back on them. Frustrating indeed.
I do have to wonder that with seeing the 2 football players dismissed if that’s the strongest hint that Jamar Smith is history as far as being on the team any longer. They’re probably waiting more on the season getting over with so that letting Jamar go doesn’t negatively impact the team during an important part of the season. I doubt it really has anything to do with waiting on the courts.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Weber is a wuss. He should have canned McBride and Smith like RIGHT NOW.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Bruce has been tired, cranky and angry for the better part of a year. The pressure of being a big time basketball coach is clearly getting to him.
The guy HAS to learn how to keep a positive attitude when things aren’t going well. Negative energy isn’t good for recruiting, isn’t good for the team, and isn’t good for Bruce.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Great article. Some of the comments appear to be written by saints that never drank or screwed up when they were in college. You are either not human or didn’t actually go to college. Bruce is both a coach and a substitute father to these players. He has to be fair and everybody deserves a second chance after making a stupid mistake. What if he hadn’t given Luther Head a second chance?
March 5th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
I find Weber’s remarks very BIZARRE. Was this a press conference or a pre-production meeting for an episode of Oprah or Dr. Phil? His personal account of his life before the age of 17 was very interesting, but what does it have to do with the D1 athletes he is in charge of. If he is seriously making a comparison between what his mother told him before the age of 17 and what he tells his players, then maybe he should be nicknamed Coach Mom before he does appear on Oprah or Dr. Phil with his hand wringing ” kids of today what are you going to do with them” act. If he does appear on those shows, it will play well, because there is nothing better the nanny state would like to see than the replacement of the traditional father figure role of coach replaced with that of the dithering mother hen figure. Calling Bob Knight, the days of the alpha male coach are over, long live Coach MOM.
March 5th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
I know the stupid things I did in college - including a DUI and one other petty arrest - and since then I’ve gone 20 years being a pretty good person and solid citizen. Thankfully, I was given a second chance by my parents, who kept paying for the rest of my college.
Weber was right to give Luther Head a second chance, and he basically helped to turn that kid around and Luther’s been a solid citizen ever since. It won’t work every time. Seems to be working with Rich. But there are some incidents that are so bad that you can’t give the kid a second chance. It’s going to be a waiting game to find out exactly what Jamar did and didn’t do, but I could see that one going either way. Jamar has always seemed like a good guy, and probably has learned his lesson the hard way, so I hope to see him get a second chance.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
You think “men” in the military behave any differently? I was at a bar this past Friday night and 2 marines, in uniform, were obviously drunk. Not only were they being quite obnoxious and yelling at any female that walked by, but they also hopped in a car and drove away from the bar. Please don’t pretend like this stuff doesn’t happen every night. I’m not condoning the behavior, but please don’t pretend like Jamar is the only one who has made a mistake.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Maybe Weber’s just upset that Zook is making him look bad by showing him how to install discipline.
There arent any “kids will be kids” or “we’re a family” type of nonsense coming from Zook.
I hope some of Zook’s leadership skills rub off on Weber.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:20 am
I must say I like Weber even better now. While Abrams incident pales in comparison to Smiths, Abram did commit a crime. And even though it was more similar to Luther Heads driving incident a few years ago, Head had to sit out a few games. The only difference is that Weber has had success in the more recent past…whereas Amaker’s job is in serious jeopardy. For whatever reason, it does seem that some writers have a hidden agenda against Weber.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Good for Bruce. Sometime it helps to get it all out.
My thoughts on Jamar and the football players:
Jamar disobeyed, drank and drove after being told not to go out. True but Brian is as much at fault. He got in a car with a drunk driver. Thank God that they both are ok after seeing that car. I do think that Jamar should be punished by the courts and since he has no prior offenses, he should get some credit for that. I think everyone deserves a second chance. Then I think that he and Brian both should serve a penalty with the team and that penalty would be decided by the athletic dept.
Now the football players: They alledgedly broke into how many apartments? I would say they deserve a second chance if they broke into one and that was it….go to court, get supervision, get disciplined by the team and move on. But they are accused of several apartments and hit and run. Apparently there is some motive there or intent. I would say that Ron Zook has some pretty solid facts about the whole thing to kick them off the team completely.
It will be very interesting when Jamar gets his day in court. I am waiting patiently to hear his side of the story.
Best of luck to all these athletes. Hopefully they will all learn their lessons and move on. Luther Head is the best example of getting another chance and making the best out of it.
Hang in there Bruce…not everyone wants you gone.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:31 am
#1-DIA- If you are going to quote someone to back up your case, don’t use Nick Smith. Watch the Arizona game again. As the entire bench is celebrating the dramatic comeback win, all you see in the back ground is a pouting Nick Smith because he didn’t get to play. He put as much into developing his game as you put into your comments. Wake up. Unfortunately we live in a world where high school and college students are binge drinking. Is it fair to ruin Jamars life because he made one mistake. If he is truly remorseful and accepts his punishment willingly, I would gladly accept him back. Their is a huge difference between that and having stolen laptops/credit cards in your car. That is unacceptable and Guenther and Zook did the right thing by kicking them off the team. Of course most of you guys won’t give Guenther any credit for that. The funy thing is that it is easy to cut a couple wide receivers when you have Been sitting on the bench. Makes the decision a little easier.
Mark….. Can you give us an update on Brian? Any chance that he will play this weekend or in the tourney? Go Illini!
March 6th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Tupster–Good article–I feel very bad for BW. It seems like things are stacked against him and the university this year–I was glad to see Zook do what he did–stealing laptops/credit cards and cash from people is a lot worse than a 19-year old making a mistake that some of us probaly made when we were the same age–You can not be with them 24/7–I had a daughter go to the UI who graduated with high honors–and I know she hit the bars once in awhile–I only hope (and we were lucky) she used the common sense (got from her Mother)and never got into any trouble–Bruce Weber is a good and kind man–Let’s give him our support instead of finding fault–GO ILLINI!
Chip
March 6th, 2007 at 12:58 am
He is not there to be a parent, he is there to coach.The players themselves have to be accountable for their own actions.Jamar was kicked off the team what more can webber do? We also have a couple bad apples in the military for the guy with post #1.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:14 am
If you look around the country young college age people do stupid things all the times:
Do military members do stupid things on weekend leave state side yes. You cant believe how many young military members lose their lives to druken accidents each year.
Do other college students do stupid things yes. Look at unoffical and spring break
Do other schools have problems with their athletes yes. Look at Gonzaga, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State, Duke just to name a few off the top of my head.
What we can hope from someone who has made a mistake like Jamar is to learn from it and mature as a person. That is what Weber is suppose to help him with as a coach. Look at how he helped Luther.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:41 am
There’s nothing wrong with giving a kid a second chance. Its when they mess up the second chance that they don’t deserve any more. We can all agree what Jamar did was stupid. But it appears he understands the magnitude of what went on. If Coach Weber thinks he is desereving of another chance then I don’t see why we shouldn’t trust him. Just think, if he wouldn’t have given Luther another chance where would the ‘05 Illini have been? Not the Final Four thats for sure. I know Luther’s incident wasn’t as big as Jamar’s but if Coach believes he desereves a second chance who are we to disagree?
As for our WR’s deciding to become theifs… If only they were Connecticut Basketball players. They’d still be on the team!
We have to remember that these kids are only in college and everyone has done a few things or more in college that they aren’t proud of so how can we bash coach for how he is dealing with the situation?
I’m not saying that anyone was right in what they did but just that we should trust what Coach says.
Weber has kept Jamar on the team so far. If thats what he feels is right, so be it. He’s a great coach and an even better person. I have no reason to believe he would keep Jamar if it would be detremential to the team and/or University.
As for Zook, he felt the need to get rid of McPhearson and Ellis. If he felt that was right, I’m in no place to argue with his decision.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:52 am
DIA Parole Officer…..your assertion that our brave young men and women fighting in Iraq do not also have problems is the talk of fools
Your posts make me think of the fool on the high hill. From his vantage point, everyone looks small. But from everyone else’s vantage point, it is the fool who looks small.
March 6th, 2007 at 8:29 am
How about I tell you what I havent done. I havent robbed anyone, I havent gotten a DUI, and I havent left my friend in a car because I thought he was dead.
March 6th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Kudos to Ron Zook for taking the right action. You have to get rid of any cancers on team, no matter how talented a player may or may not be. As for Weber getting pissed at the media, that’s natural. You have too many media members who have no business asking questions, period. Or shall we say, too many so-called “media members” who really aren’t media, they just pretend to be. But BW still has issues to be resolved once the season is over. That’s an issue he can’t walk away from…yes Tupp, I’m talking about the assistants. BW better snatch up Molinari before he gets offered the ISU job…because Jim is an excellent teacher and would be a great compliment to Bruce’s staff. As far as I’m concerned, Bruce needs 4 NEW assistants. This bunch has ran it’s course…
March 6th, 2007 at 9:26 am
DIA; I am a veteran and I can tell you this; Military men and women get into as much trouble as college men and women and just the same type of trouble too.
I don’t think the football issue is through yet…if they are aquitted, 10-1 Zook reinstates them.
March 6th, 2007 at 9:32 am
DIA - #1 Nice to know you never made any mistakes past the age of 17……..
What a pathetic hypocrite you are.
March 6th, 2007 at 9:35 am
#6 - Roxy
I appreciate your generosity to the I-Fund. I am a long-time donar myself. But a question:
Did you JUST NOW discover that student athletes engage in underage drinking?
Or are you only now saddened by it?
What about the underage drinking during the previous 13 years?
Just wondering………
March 6th, 2007 at 9:41 am
#7 - FRG
I knew you would show up today to take your cheap shots at Coach Weber, just like you took a cheap shot at me with your insipid Boys Town comment on the last blog.
You, sir, are a twisted, pathetic little man, as should be evidenced by the time you devote to a negative engagement like tyring to oust someone from their job. There are so many positive and charitable things you could be doing with your time and energy.
Instead, you use it to tear down, criticize, and besmirch.
Wasteful……….
March 6th, 2007 at 9:49 am
#12 - Erik Alexander
What dream world are you living in? Can I come and play too?
You think there aren’t incidents at every college in America? Are you for real? WE’re just cloer to the fire here.
And this comment: “If Weber and the coaches constantly tell the players to make smart choices, and they EXPLICITLY said not to go out the night of the snowstorm because of the weather and they disobeyed him anyway, he clearly doesn’t have their respect. If he did, they wouldn’t have gone out drinking and then driving.”
You are obviously not a parent, or else you never disobeyed your parents. This is typical teenager-poor choice behavior.
March 6th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Here is what I think. Those that want Weber gone are the same ones that became Illini fans in 2005. If you do not like how Weber handles these incidents then you can jump off the bandwagon just as easily as you jumped on. I feel he has handled everything with integrity that most other coaches would not have had. Let us take a look at the SIU program as a good vantage point as to where we are headed as a basketball program which is exactly where we want to be. You need to remember that he is a coach and not their parents which means he can not hold their hands when not in the gym. They are on their own and should and will be held acountable for their own actions.
March 6th, 2007 at 9:58 am
All of the problems with ILL bb this year ,off court and on court are not all BW fault .Some are the result of a less than adequat staff .Bw has not been served well by his ass coaches .We will now see if BW has the courage to make a change or two .Like maybe some one that can recruit Chicago .Staff needs to change .rjl
March 6th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Mark,good article. For those who constantly bash Weber, I would suggest you look at what Amaker did or didn’t do with Abram. I think Weber is doing the right thing with Jamar and waiting for the courts to have their say. The key here is that Jamar didn’t willfully crash his car into a tree. The football players must have known what they were doing.
I just hope that things work out for Jamar and that the college kids who are heckling him lay off. He has gone through enough hell already. He will have to endure further punishment and I don’t think anyone with a good conscience wants to see him on a suicide watch.
One thing is for certain and that is tougher penalties for serious infractions, in particular drinking under the influence. Weber needs to lay down the law and state the hard cold facts if anyone violates the policy. Unfortunately, when the athletes get involved it becomes major headlines and reflects poorly on all involved and could cost a coach his job.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Only two comments. The first being that the 2 football players were 2 of what, 95 or 100? They also had not performed up to expectations. I say this, if the 2 had been AB and Juice and the Zooker let them go he should be sainted. I am only saying that his decision was easier that Bruce’s since it was 1 or 2 of maybe 15. However, secondly, if he had dismissed McBride on the DUI (second major screw up) and told the kids this is the penalty for drinking and driving this situation maybe doesn’t happen. Zook has now set the bar for his program so there will be not tolerance in the future for this type of behavior. Bruce should have done the same and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I know kids drink but doing that then getting behind the wheel is 1000 times more unacceptable than it was 20 plus years ago. We all know that.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:29 am
“those that want Weber gone are the same ones that became Illini fans in 2005″
You got it backwards.
Long time Illini fans–that have respect for the program going back to 1989–through Kiwane, Frank, Cook, Dee, Deron–we realize the standard that has been set at U of I. We dont want to go back.
Long-time Illini fans want Weber gone.
Its the bandwagoners that think just bc Weber took the team to the Final Four once, that he deserves to be coach for the next 10 years no matter how many guys get DUI’s or recruits we miss, or NCAA tourneys we miss…
Bruce Weber=Mike Davis.
Hopefully, he leaves the program after next season’s NIT.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Ken Riggs—
Abrams was driving on a suspended license. His thing didnt involve alcohol. To compare Smith and Abrams, is absolutely retarded. Even more retarded, is that Head was guilty of the SAME thing…and Weber DID NOT suspend him for any games either.
I’m shocked Weber has this many supporters still left…but then again there’s was still a pretty large contingent of Ron Turner supporters still around. Of course, they also thought Dustin Ward was a Big 10 QB.
Eh, now you got Trent Meacham to look at.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:08 am
#43- Joe John- Still waiting for you to write something half way intelligent. You think Weber should be gone despite getting us to the championship game and you want us to return to the glory days of Kiwane, Frank, and Cook? Hmmm..did I fall asleep during those years because all I remember from those three is either missing the tourney or getting knocked out in the first or second round. I’ve been an Illinois fan dating back to Bruce Douglas and that’s an era I don’t want to return to.
Weber has 20+ wins with a team that has had just about every player out at one time with injury, rarely has his entire team to even practice with, and has had to deal with the off court problems of McBride and Smith. Throw in all the crap Weber unfairly received for the whole Gordon fiasco and we should honestly be an under .500 team. And comparing Mike Davis to Bruce Weber, that’s not even worth arguing about. Congratulations, that has to be the most idiotic thing anyone has ever posted on this blog.
Intelligent Illini fans who actually know the game want Weber to stay. Why would you throw away a 20+ game winner away? You probably want Jimmy Collins to coach us. Yikes. And get your facts straight, Head sat out several games after his incident.
Please stop speaking for the long time Illini fans. We don’t want to rally around an idiot like you. Next time you supposedly want to take me ot the woodshed, you should bring more with you than a smiley face icon. Pretty lame. Go Illini!
March 6th, 2007 at 11:09 am
I can only hope those of you that consitantly state you will discontinue your I Fund donations and season tickets to basketball actually follow through on your threats. I as well, as many others will be there to pick up your season tickets. I would be more than happy to make the drive down from Chicago regularly instead of only three or four games a year.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Under Bill Self, JR Giddens was involved in a bar fight and stabbed. CJ Giles beat up his girlfriend on more than one occasion. Granted both of them were eventually kicked off, but these are just as bad, if not worse offenses. No one talks about that because Kansas has been winning. The only reason you are all on Weber’s back is because Illinois isnt winning like they have, and that’s the sad reality. Forget about Self and get off Weber’s back (who has more tourney wins in the past 4 years?) This stuff happens everywhere.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Joe John - #43
Very interesting how you date yourself:
“Long time Illini fans–that have respect for the program going back to 1989…..”
How about going back to the slush fund years of the 60’s, my young friend? I remember the drought of the 70’s until Coach Henson came along. I remember camping out in the Illini Union in the spring of ‘80 in order to get tickets to the N I T. We thought that was a big deal back then. Coach Henson was the best thing to happen to Illini basketball since the Whiz Kids of the ’40s.
There were a lot of bandwagon jumpers back in ‘89. Maybe you were one of them. Many jumped back off in the 90’s. And now comes Bruce Weber, taking the program to a new high in ‘05.
BAM is the winningest coach in Division 1 the last 4 years, and contrary to your remarks, hasn’t missed an NCAA yet….and won’t this year!
Bruce Weber = Mike Davis? Not at all!!
Joe John = whining, narcisstic, self-absorbed, spoiled fan? Yes!
March 6th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Great post #25 Amy. She is exactly right. The wrongful deeds committed by the two football players is not comparable to what Jamar did. There was no premeditation to harm. He was being drunk and stupid. The football players were allegedly robbing people. Big difference. Once Jamar got into the accident, even greater stupidity took over and you know the story from there. But, once again, he wasn’t trying to harm, hurt, or rob someone. He IS a kid and made a mistake many kids make. It’s kind of funny how a 21-win game versus a 26-win season makes people so inciteful (note that I didn’t say insightful). There was no where near the same backlash when Luther made his mistake….why, because we were winning big! If we were on top of the B10 and looking for a 1 or 2 seed in the tourney, these incidents would have been glossed over. Too bad…very sad. I am still very much a believer in BW and our beloved Illini!
March 6th, 2007 at 11:33 am
Today’s Peoria Journal-Star ran a really good article on the Jamar Smith / Brian Carwell incident, with input from Jamar’s grandfather. The article shows the human side of this story. It’s a must-read for the few heartless people on this blog who have never been teenagers before and done stupid things. It can be found at: http://www.pjstar.com/stories/030607/ILL_BCIJJN0E.072.php
March 6th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Joe John, you really show your basketball ignorance comparing Bruce Weber to Mike Davis! Coach Pignatore, one of the most respected HS coaches in this state and the nation spoke glowingly about Coach Weber’s abilities in a recent article. Speak for yourself, “mr. long time fan” all the way back to ‘89. As someone who has followed the Illini since the early 70s I am proud to have Bruce coaching my team. With a name like Joe John and your take on basketball, maybe you would fit in better down in Kentucky.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
First, let me say that I’m a life-time alum and a deep-down fan of the Fighting Illini. I have been since the mid 60’s when I first attended the U of I. I’d also like to say that I’m addicted to Mark’s weblog. I live in Buffalo, and get very little news about the Fighting Illini, so it’s a welcome insight into what’s really happening to the teams. I’ve read all the comments about the Smith issue, and after a great deal of thought, I’ll have to come down on the side of Coach Weber. 18-20 year olds ARE still kids, even if they have adult responsibilities. Maturity does not come with the situation, and this is true whether in school, in the workplace, or in the military. I was brought up well and strictly. My father was the most honorable man I know, and I went to demanding catholic schools for 12 years. Nontheless, I remember going to Kam’s (is that still there) my very first day at Illinois, where I got terribly drunk. My dorm counselor happened to see me throwing up on the sidewalk. He took me to his home, and said I’d have a tough time of it in college if I kept up with that behavior. I really wish I could say that his talk inspired me to clean up my act, but it didn’t. I drank too much (not often, but not rarely either), and even drove DUI. I’m asahmed of that behavior now, but I did survive, and I was truly fortunate in not having caused injury to anyone else, tho it easily could have happened. I got way more than a second chance at Illinois, and I hope I’ve repaid that through performance (BS 68, MS, 71, PhD 74, all at the U of I).
I’ve seen a lot of coaches at Illinois, from Harv Schmidt through to Weber. I even taught at Indiana for 20 years and “experienced” Bobby Knight, and all of them had some issues to deal with involving their teams at one time or another. Some of it has made the news, other incidents have been hushed up. Except for Knight, all the coaches I mentioned were honorable men, whom I’m sure projected that image to their players and tried to get them to live up to the standards they personally set. But they couldn’t live in their players pockets, and neither can Weber.
One thing I’ve noticed in the responses so far is that nobody has referred to Illinois Basketball’s stellar Academic Progress Rate. You’ve got to know that such an achievement does not happen unless there is a concerted effort by the coach (all of them), the team members, and the athletic department. It speaks of a committment to the players, and from the players, to make sure that they come away from the U of I with a solid education. Sure doesn’t appear to me that we have an unconcerned coach, a bunch of out-of-control kids, and a rogue program. Webber is a great coach who coinsistently gets his teams to exceed expectations. He did at SIU, and he will/has here IF WE GIVE HIM A CHANCE.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
#36 Algonquin Bill , actually when i was at uiuc the legal age was 18. i hadn’t thought about it at all until my kid started there last year. next year i will have 2 there!i have always enjoyed illini sports and after a quarter century away i began going again a couple years ago. obviously my perspective has changed quite a bit! my kids have been taught that alcohol is a drug and they know that if they were caught with ANY while driving they would surrender their license and have insurance cancelled. so far, no problems! unfortunately, the pervasive mentality around our campus and probably most is that it is ok to drink, just don’t get caught! alcohol at some point (different for each individual) blurs one’s ability to make good choices and that is what many forget! if i were convicted of a felony DUI the state could pull my medical license. these kids on scholarship can be viewed the same way: follow the rules or face the music. what to do with Jamar? tough question that i am happy i don’t have to answer! his GF wants us to believe that he will embark on a crusade against driving drunk. while skeptical, if he would truly agree to become the campus spokesman of alcohol’s inherent dangers and spent his likely sentence of hundreds of hours of community service in our frats, sororities and dorms on this quest i guess i could live with keeping him on the team.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Changing the subject(with your permission)
Several years ago the Illini went into the BTT after posting a very poor regular season. I can’t remember how they did in the BTT but it seems that they won as many as three games and played in the championship game. I also seem to remember that the team did fairly well in the NCAA tourney.
If anyone has info about this subject,I would appreciate any help.
March 6th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Luther should have been kicked off for the burglary. Even if Luther didnt “steal” after he got caught the first time…is that really a success story?
We’ve sunk so low that we’ll actually pat guys on the back for “Not breaking the law”….
Geez.
I commend Ron Zook for being a man and showing whose boss. There is no “We let the team vote”…”Kids will be kids”…”Not saying drinking is right or wrong”…”we’re family”…
Zook’s making Weber look like a dunce.
I for one, love it.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Comment by DIA\\\’s Parole Officer — 3/5/2007 @ 6:33 pm
In regards to the comment made by the poster listed directly above, that I attaced, are you a moron? Fire the coach for what these men, as you call then, so on their own time. Maybe kick the “men” off the team, that would be a nice life lesson. Unless you are someone that has never touched alcohol, then you have no right to say someone else should not drink. Sure drinking as a minor is against the law, but that is for the law to handle. Bruce Weber is a mens basketbal coach, not a law enforcement officer. He is a great teacher and a great coach. Getting rid of Bruce Weber would not prevent under age drinking. Get a grip and look at the big picture before you go spouting off about firing our coach.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
One comment about comparing coaches. How many Final Fours did Henson, Self, and Kruger take the Illini. I believe the answer is 1 and we all believe that team was the best in the nation. They did not make it to the national championship game. I loved Lou Henson when he was coach and I have always thought that Kruger was responsible for bringing the Illini back into tournament form. And Self is an excellent recruiter. But, was Williams as good a point guard before or after Weber came. Was Head a better person before or after. Who showed Dee how to work in the off season so that he would become a lot better shooter. Give Weber his due he is a great coach and a great human being who has had to deal with a lot of problems this year caused by immature kids or young adults. However you want to call them you can decide. The fact of the matter is HE CAN NOT WATCH THEM 24 HOURS A DAY. We can not even do this for our own kids. The only thing we can do is give them a positive influence and advice and hope that it sticks with them. They decide how they listen to it.
One other thing if everyone that posts ever wants to see the big time recruits come to Illinois why don’t you say good things about the ones that are coming instead of bashing them. Your words have just as big of an affect as the coaches do with showing support for the programs at U of I.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
To 54:
The BTT you are referring to was the 1999 Tournament; my freshman year at UIUC. Coach Judson only brought one suit with him to Chicago and we made it to the Championship game game and lost to Michigan State. We were the 11th seed that season.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Joe John - #53
You have just topped your own high standards for an asinine posting. How do you keep reaching new “heights”?
Your comments about BAM are shameful, illicit, irresponsible, inaccurate, and just plain ignorant.
BAM is a decent, caring, intelligent, disciplined human being, who can coach lights out over ANYONE else in the Big Ten, and can hold his own to any other coach in the nation.
You aren’t worthy to carry his clipboard.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Maybe the world would be a better place if people started to acknowledge the seriuosness of drunken driving. Saying that it isn’t as bad as stealing is ridiculous and is basically “homer spin”!!!!
Let me see, people never get killed due to drunk driving do they?? People are not mamed and injured for life becaause they or someone else decided to roll the dice with a 2 ton weapon going god knows how fast??
I want the program to flourish and for Jamar to get a chance as much as the next guy, but please spare me these arguments. As far as I know underage drinking is against the law and so is drving at over twice the legal limit. NO WAY TO SPIN THAT ONE!! Let’s try not to justify crime over the other.
ALSO, what really irks me is that BAM supposedly told these guys not to go out and they did. Kind of like them not listening to a thing he has said on the court this year either.
If your players don’t or won’t listen to you, you have nothing.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Well said Brooks(45) & Algon Bill(48). You saved me the trouble of responding to Billy Bob Joe John.
Buffalowing(52) You make some excellent points, especially about the APR. Sadly, some people don’t care about that, they care only about the W/L numbers. I agree that the APR at Illinois shows that we do not have an unconcerned coach, a bunch of out-of-control kids, & a rogue program.
March 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Algonquin Bill:
If you don’t believe this is a matter of Weber not having the respect of his players as evidenced by them doing exactly what he told them not to do just a few hours later, answer me this:
Why, in 4 years under Weber, have we seen more off-court problems than the previous 30 years and 3 coaches combined?
March 6th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Grubworm #57 - I couldn’t agree with you more, regarding your statement about wanting the big time recruits to come here, why don’t we talk more positively about them, and our coaches and our University, rather than bashing them. I would hate to think that any recruit would have to read the likes of Billy Bob Joe John, or any of the other overly negative psycho bloggers that come on here. I’ve often thought that kind of thinking is what keeps us from accomplishing the very thing they claim they want us to, ie….always finishing first, and always being in the National Championship game - when in fact we already have one of the winningest coaches in recent history.
Somehow you would think a positive spin would come out of that…….but no, we have one kind of down year, and man, everyone is ready to cut
Coach Weber’s throat….crazy man, crazy. Let’s support our coaches and our team, what’s wrong with that ?
March 6th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
The article on Jamar, featuring an interview with Bishop Smith, Jamar’s grandfather, is very insightful. Please, everyone read it. Thanks, William for offering it. The article just goes to show you that oftentimes the media get the facts wrong, especially at the beginning–I think the Illini team has been defamed.
I agree with those who are saying that other teams and coaches are dealing with these player problems, too–not just the Illini. Our society has created a classic no-win situation: immature “youth-adults” are put in the spotlight and made to be adult role models too soon. Colleges have to draw the line somewhere with their young athletes, but where to draw the line? The extended burglaries — that’s an easier call than this one. Certainly for Jamar an extended suspension is necessary…but kicking him off the team? That’s a tough call. Coach Weber’s in a jam here. Those on either side of this issue who talk like it’s an easy call are (again) judging too quickly.
March 6th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Joe John- If you think that Zook makes Weber look like a dunce, how do you think you look every time you post something stupid?
Zook had an easy call. They stole laptops and credit cards!!! It’s a no brainer to kick them off the team. They willingly committed a crime. Smith drove a car while intoxicated. Yes, it was a stupid decision, but not one that demands that he immediately get kicked off the team. If he is remorseful and serves his punishment, I have no problem with him coming back.
Joe John. It’s time to turn in your orange and blue. We’re kicking you off the bandwaggon.
Go Illini!
March 6th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I have never seen so many saints in my life as post on this blog. From reading the blogs it sounds as though there is not a single poster that has ever ignored an authority figure or law and done what they want. Regardless of whether they are a kid or an adult. On my trips down for any sporting event I could walk into any drinking establishment and find more “adults” drinking prior to and after the game that are getting in a car and driving home. Many of whom likely are driving to Chicago. Most likely some of you nay sayers on here are guilty of that at some point or other as well. Should a student athlete be held to a higher standard? Definately not. Its a fact that when alcohol is in use many stupid decisions are made. I for one have made them and fortunately not had to pay the consequences.
#53 Roxy - If you believe your children don’t drink because you have not caught them while down there, you must be pretty naive. It may be possible. But when I was in school that is what most parents believed. And it was the farthest thing from the truth.
Regardless of what a college coach, professor, administrator or parent say and do, kids/young adults will drink. The fact that it is 19 to get into the bars there doesn’t do one thing to help this. Once in the bar anything goes. And for those who don’t believe that it must be great living in that dream world.
As far as BW being fired. Why? Because a player under the influence made a bad decision? Because we had yet another winning season, despite so many setbacks? He most definately deserves a chance beyond that, especially considering the stature that he gave SIU.
As for BW’s recruiting ability it would not help one bit for a prospect to read this board. I for one would read this and decide a diferent institution would be better. As there appears to be limited support for the program. If the coach of a winning team is not supported why would the athlete. You are all doing more harm than good. Because quite frankly RG isn’t going to listen to your advice.
So quit the whining and grow up. I hate to say it but most of you sound like a bunch of five year olds, and for that matter the knowledge of a bunch of five year olds.
March 6th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Algonquin Bill - Give it a rest. Also, HoopDog And Brooks. Let’s say you are in charge of the local UPS terminal. And despite your rule that no one drive drunk, one or two of your drivers are involved in an accident after drinking on the job. Your boss then calls you into his office to explain.
Do you think that “I can’t watch them 24/7″, “They just did a stupid thing. You know, boss, we all have”, “I run a clean shop here”, “My drivers deliver more product on time than most any in the country”, and “It was just one mistake. I think he deserves a second chance”, arguments are going to stand up? My money says the boss says, “You’re fired.” (as well as the drivers)
March 6th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Marlin - #67
I haven’t fired back at you too often, but I will gladly do so tonight.
First, let’s not confuse college athletics with the real world, okay? We’re both smarter than that. Totally apples to oranges. In your UPS situation, the manager of the terminal fires both drivers immediately. (Depending, of course, on how hamstrung he is by the local teamsters union….who will defend their group of morons against any charge…but that is another story.)
2nd, if you fired EVERY men’s BB or football coach whenever one of their players drove drunk, you and I would be coaching Division 1, because there would be no one else left.
I sincerely don’t know what you expect BAM to do, beyond tucking each player in at night or having them wear ankle monitors.
By the way, did you actually READ Tupp’s column? BAM and the athletic department have to be doing SOMETHING right to be honored for their Academic Progress Rates. Or do you prefer only to rail against BAM for the bad instances, and not acknowledge the good?
Just wondering……
March 6th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Link
The Ten Most Hated Dukies
There seems to be a lot of venom is this space lately. God forbid, Bruce Weber and the Illini would not win 20 games one of these seasons. Perhaps those real Illini bashers can make up a top ten most hated Illini list similar to the the liked story above.
March 6th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
While cruising the other blogs (Kansas, Kentucky, some others) I find a fair number of bloggers who want to cut off the current coach’s head (even Self’s), fire the AD or otherwise “punish” the current administration of that particular program. It seems that there are folks who just feel that way on every blog. My point — arguing with them won’t change a thing. Subpoint–if recruits had read the Kansas blog (especially earlier in the year) they probably wouldn’t have wanted to go there. Certainly true of Kentucky. Right now, a fair number of Dookeis are calling for a change.
So, fellow Friends of Weber (FOW’s) why don’t we just ignore those who ain’t?
GO ILLINI!
March 6th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Good person,good coach,good teacher will not keep BW job nor will it get him fired ,but poor recruting will .In 4 years there has not been a top recruit that could produce as a fres or soph .When you end up with Jackson ,Frazer ,Mechem as scolorship players you are heading for trouble .Some as coach had to recomend those to BW .Bw must bring in a ass that can recruit or he will be gone by 2010 .rjl
March 6th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Illini in Alabama,
Thanks for the info.
The BTT in 1999 proves that anything can happen in a four day tourney. The Illini ranked dead last in the Big Ten wound up playing for the championship. This years team is ranked sixth.
Illini in Alabama-Do you remember how the ‘99 did in the NCAA tourney?
March 6th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Jim - #72
They made neither the NCAA tourney or the NIT tourney, as their final record was something like 14 - 18.
The Big Ten touney was all of nothing for them.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Illinois didn’t make the either tournament in 1999. This was the freshman year of Robert Archibald, Lucas Johnson, Damir Krupalija and Cory Bradford’s first year of playing after being a partial qualifier. Frank Williams also sat out as a partial. Illinois has made the tournament every year since missing out during the 1999 season.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Our family lives in Kentucky and we IN NO WAY WANT TO SEE BRUCE WEBER HERE. KEEP HIM IN CHAMPAIGN. His stature as a coach is rising as he deals with both “modern-day” and “age-old” problems. He seems to be showing good judgement in deciding when to draw the line.Most of our youth deserve at least a “second chance”. Haven’t we all been given a 2nd chance at one time or another?
Keep Bruce in Champaign…go Illini.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Algonqin Bill, BrooksTaylor, Jimmy Dee, and the likes…you collectively remind me of the Scare Crow in the Wizard of Oz and his famous song “If I Only Had a Brain”! I mean, what is it with you folks…have you lost your mind, i.e., if you ever had one.
How in the world can you justify, let alone defend, what has been and continues to happen with all our sport programs under this loser and incompetent AD of our ours, Ron Guenther? you continue asking those of us who demand a complete reform of our athletic programs to enumerate Guenther’s failures. Well, my friends, his failures are to numerous to enumerate…and if you haven’t figured them out by now, as nearly every decent Illini alumnus/fan has already, then you individually are much more of an imbeclle than previously presumed by some of us. You have become attack dogs for Guenther trying to protect his rapidly sinking regim.
What has he done wrong, you ask? The Lou Tepper episode alone was a reason to fire him, the Ron Turner fiasco alone was a reason to fire him, the women basketball’s continuing disaster alone is a reason to fire him, the current men basketball’s rapidly descending status alone is a reason to fire him…and that is just three of our programs. What has he done wrong? How about asking what has he done right in 15 years? The proud Illini are now the laughing stock and the butt of the joke by everybody that has the slighest knowledge of big time college sports. Our sport programs are not clean, but scandalous…and to make matters worse, we don’t even have a single national championship in football and basketball to show for the hardship that we have endured during this incompetent AD’s 15 years tenure at IL. Granted that there are schools (like Miami of Florida) that run dirty programs…but at least they have national championships to show for it…but IL doesn’t even have that…so we have been book-ended, getting it from both ends. As a small man, Guenther has one of the worst cases of “inferiority complex” known to man…he is scared to death of success and couldn’t wait for somebody like Bill Self or the tennis coach we had to leave (he could have kept them both with better pay)…everything has to be small…down and low to his size. He doesn’t raise a finger to help these coaches with their weaknesses (e.g. Mr. Weber with his recruiting and Mr. Zook with his sideline coaching, etc.)…he is incapable of correcting any of the scandals surrounding our sports (e.g., athlets’ theft, DUI, etc.)…our sport facilities suck…Illinois high school coaches in every sport hate IL and discourage blue chip players to go there because of Guenther’s well-known arrogance toward them…and he lost our beloved “CHIEF”…and you ask what’s wrong with Guenther? Which cave have you guys been living in the past 15 years?
Finally, firing the current coaches is no longer the answer…it only buys more time for this incompetent AD to hang around. I don’t want this guy fire or hire one more coach for IL in any sport…let’s get rid of him and clean-up the whole mess once and for all.
Wake-up guys and do something right for a change…demand the firing of incompetent Ron Guenther…the FIGHTING ILLINI and their fans deserve better than what we have got.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:18 am
#67- Marlin. What a poor analogy. Jamar wasn’t driving a company vehicle and wasn’t on company time. He was in his own vehicle on his own time. I have no right to fire him. It’s totally different if he was driving the Illini charter bus, on company time,drinking, and got in a wreck.
Jamar is 19 years old. Pulling his scholarship and kicking him off the team will ruin his life. Seems a bit harsh for one stupid mistake, don’t you think? You and I don’t know Jamar on a daily basis. Weber does. Only he knows if Jamar is remorseful and worth giving a second chance. We have no right to judge this situation because we are on the outside. Weber is a class guy and will do what is best for the team and Jamar. Brian reaching out to Jamar is a huge sign that Jamar might be worth a second chance. Lets wait till all of the facts come out. It’s sad that innocent until proven guilty is always thrown out the window. Look at the affect that it had on Duke lacrosse. Go Illini!
March 7th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Hey Bruce, Actually, drinking and driving is wrong–and you be a better coach if you would understand that.
March 7th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Disgusted Illini Fan
I only say “as a dog returns to his vomitus, so to a fool to his folly.”
Give it a rest, will ya?
March 7th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Grubworm and others, thanks for agreeing with thoughts I too have posted on here. We all appreciate your levelheadedness in a sea of idiocy. Blogs give a voice to those people whose opinions nobody in life cares about anyway. No need to name them on here - you know who they are! Funny how they completely ignore the one piece of Tupps’ column that even raised my eyebrows — that about the APR. Congrats Weber and the Illini!! You CAN coach kids who are SUCCEEDING in the classroom!! That alone gives all of us Weber and Illini fans great glee and I plan to throw it in many of your cyber faces every chance I get.
To “Fire Ron Guenther” - I finally agree with you. He’s a dastardly AD who sleeps just one hour a night while trying to sabotage the programs he oversees. I bet - and I think YOU are the hounddog to sniff this one out - he stood in the road in front of Jamar’s car, causing him to swerve into that tree in the first place! And then hid his cellphone while Jamar was dazed. And then invited strippers to the apartment to distract his teammates and keep them from coming to his aid. But I’ve put together a list of other horrible occurrences that Mr. Guenther surely has caused as well:
-Global warming
-The fall of Scooter Libby
-Anna Nicole Smith’s death
-Rising gas costs
-Enron
-The Florida “chad” scandal
-Who shot J.R.
-The timer at the USSR-USA 1972 Olympic debacle
-Who shot JFK
-The Lindbergh baby disappearance
-The Depression
-Prohibition
-The Great Fire of Chicago
As you can see, FRG, the guy has been busy! And what luck that he’s now set his sights on the Illinois athletic program.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:35 am
#70 Jessica- Nice post. I know what you mean about the coach’s head-cutters on every school’s blog, but it sometimes helps to have a reminder.
I proudly consider myself to be one of your FOW’s (Friends of Weber) and usually do ignore those who aren’t. (My bad for engaging our resident “genius” on college athletic’s administration DIF the other day. I’ll try to resist the urge to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed combatant in the future). In any case, it’s time to start gearing up for the Big Ten Tournament and stop all the moralizing on behavioral issues. Let’s get at least two and move on to the big dance!
March 7th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Disgusted,
What a crazy and simple world you live in. You blame everything on Guenther and you think that firing him will solve all of our problems. You are probably the same person who blames everything on President Bush and thinks that having him out of office will solve everything. Wow, I wish life was that simple.
Can we give Zook longer than 2 years to prove he can’t coach? Weber, can’t recruit, yet he has his fourth 20+ win season? The Chief? You should look at the President of the University and the Board of Trustees. They made that decision. Men’s basketball, baseball, golf, tennis, volleyball, track have all been very successful. You should go see them sometime before you make that comment. And recruiting? The coaches build relationships with the high school coaches, not the AD.
Once again you have no valid case. I have never met Guenther so I have no connection to the man. I’m just smart enough to realize that you can’t blame one person for every problem that affects the University. Dirty program? I don’t want to win a championship and then find out 5 years later that we cheated. Illinois has never done that and I am proud of that fact. I don’t want us to become a Miami or Memphis. No thanks. I agree 100% with the professor. Give it a rest. Go Illini!
March 7th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Algonquin Bill: I will grant you the APR’s look good. But APR’s can be manipulated. When my daughter was recruited to run track at Illinois, we were waiting for Gary Winkler to meet with us and 2 girls on the track team came into the office to work on their course schedule for next year. When one of them could not get a course that she needed, one of assistants (who had overheard the conversation) came out of his office and told the secretary, “Isn’t that Sports Management course with Professor (name) available? Call over there and see if it’s still open. She can take that one. That will get her enough hours won’t it?”
I know several D-1 coaches. To a man (and woman), they all say that APR’s are nice, but they really don’t meean much.
I will still say that Weber does not have control of this team. It has been evident on the court (if you watched at all), and even more so off the court. The most obvious abdication of responsibility was letting the team vote to put Jamal on the bench after the incident. Who’s in charge?
It did not sound to me as if this particular team drinking incident was isolated. In fact, it sounded to me as if it were a regular event. Which would explain the woeful underachievement by this bunch of athletes. And Brooks, Jamal was on University time. Right or wrong, fair or not, a D-1 athlete is always on University time. How would you like to be the President of the University going before the legislature to ask for appropriation money and being asked to explain this incident? That’s the problem. And it’s huge.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Brooks: If Jamal’s life is ruined, it’s ruined because he got in a car after he had been drinking beer and tequila, not because his scholarship was jerked. And what the hell is “Brian reaching our for Jamal” a sign of. How could it be a sign of anything? Certainly not something as profound as indicating Jamal is worth “saving”. How would Brian, and especially you, know anything about saving anybody?
Zook handled the situation exactly right. he sent a message and if the guys are found innocent, he can easily reinstate them without repercussion. Weber has put himself in a box by continually acepting this behavior without consequence. And you blithering idiots keep saying he’s doing the right thing. You have no idea what the “right thing” is.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:36 am
“I don’t want to win a championship and then find out 5 years later that we cheated. Illinois has never done that and I am proud of that fact. I don’t want us to become a Miami or Memphis.”
When was Memphis on probation?
The bottomline is that your coach let a burglar remain on the basketball team, and your NCAA final 4 run is tainted bc of that.
Now your coach is reaping what he sows.
Derrick Rose–cant wait to see him play for the tigers…
March 7th, 2007 at 11:44 am
L.S. you forgot Guenther’s 64-106-2 record as the football guy.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:44 am
#83 Marlin. Your comment about your daughters’ scheduling problems may seem to be an indictment of that school’s athletic department, but I assure you, after 30+ years in higher education, ALL students are faced with the same problem over and over thru their college careers, and they do exactly the same thing. If they can’t get a course they want, they look around to find anything that’s available. Do ALL students “manipulate” the system. And I’d ask one question about your comprehensive (several is the word you used) survey about APRs: were the teams of the coaches you talked to on the list of programs with acceptable APRs. If not, you might want to temper your disdain for that measure of a program’s committment to its students.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:45 am
with all that has happened this year I think the Illini have a very good chance of playing on Sunday in the Big Ten tournament, and gettin an eight seed in THE tournament
March 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Marlin - Ann Arbor
His name is JAMAR. JAMAR. JAMAR!
March 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Marlin - #83
On the question of the APRs, I have to agree with the previous poster. Are your Division 1 coaches on the list of acceptable APRs? If not, that would obviously taint their responses.
Being in the Chicago area, I have watched EVERY game this season. I am not sure you could find a compelling GAME example of BAM not being in control. Do the players run every play perfectly? No. Does Rich McBride keep shooting from 30 feet when he’s not hitting? Yes. Do the Illini have too many turnovers and not enough made free throws? No. Have you seen ANY signs of rebellion, disagreement, or disrespect in the timeout huddles? No.
Thus, how can you state that he doesn’t have control of the team on the court? Those are YOUR WORDS!
As for the Jamar/bench incident, the correct story is that the team voted to invite Jamar TO THE GAME….not to sit on the bench. I was watching that game. He came in just before the start, and proceeded to take a seat behind the team. Then, Brian Carlwell can be seen very clearly (ESPN showed replays) motioning for Jamar to come and sit next to him, as he tapped the seat of the chair next to him.
Just wanted to clarify…..
March 7th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Just read back a few post and picked up DIF’s rant.
It was beautiful man!!! Keep up the fight. The homers on here can spin it anyway they want but facts are facts.
They asked for em and you brung it!!!
#84 Marlin you beat me to it.
How folks is kicking someone off a team going to ruin their life? Going to prison, now that is a life ender but not being removed from a b-ball team. Wise-up Homers!!
Just because Brian is alive, it doesn’t change what happened.
Jamar got INSANELY DRUNK, disobeyed his coach, put his life, brians and potentially anyone else around them in jeopardy. He even did all of this on a weeknight. (Who the hell gets that drunk on a Monday night??)
AND, anyone who says that the players have been listening to him this year is a joke. BAM has been griping all year about this and that.
I would even bring up Warren Carter as an example. Warren listened so well that he is basically our best offensive player BUT it took him 4 years to crack the line-up and BAM even admitted that he is only playing him because he has to. WOW, he is really getting through to these guys.
Whatever BAM is teaching these guys, I don’t eant any of it!!
p.s. PREDICTION TIME.
I will go on record and say that BAM will NEVER, EVER get even a wiff of the Final Four again. He is the reincarnation of his mentor, Gene Keady. Unfortunately Gene could at least land the “in-state” guys like C. Martin and Big Dog. BAM can’t even do that.
March 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I am a big bruce weber support, but even I am a little discouraged by recruiting. If Coach weber is the CEO, he needs to make some changes in his senior management to upgrade the recruiting ‘gets.’ That said, he is an excellent in game coach and I believe he will turn the Illini into an elite team. It will take a few more years, however. But what wonders he can work: Look at Pruit’s improvement. Last year, I thought he looked like one of the slowest big dawgs I have ever seen. This year, the guy is a low post beat, with more effort and intensity than most. Coach Weber–keep doing it the right way
March 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
#80 L.S.
I can’t understand how you could be so soft on Guenther. You mention all the obvious things that he’s responsible for ” global warming, Enron, etc” But how can you overlook the fact that Ron Geunther, singlehandedly, has been the biggest barrier to World Peace, that he is responsible for traffic signals staying on red for too long, and that he really, really, really hates kittens. As long as all of you keep you head in the sand and fail to recognize that Ron Geunther HATES everyone and that he was secretly placed in the Illinois AD position by the NCAA, anti-Chief groups, and Bruce Pearl then nothing will get better. Our basketball teams will continue to deliver embarassing 20+ win seasons, our school colors will be changed to orange and off-orange, and our team name will be changed to the Illinois Ragamuffins.
WAKE UP!!
March 7th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
an 8 seed in the NCAA Tournemant…thats a joke right? its going to end up being 10 at best. because of their record against the top 25
March 7th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
It is obvious that the newcomer, rjl, is not a graduate of the U of I.
If simple punctuation, spelling and grammar are beyond your grasp, why would you think you know anything about being a Division 1 coach?
March 7th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
ENOUGH ABOUT PRIOR EVENTS YOU IGNORANT and BIASED MORONS - Coach can not control the moves of every player at all times. He can lead them the right way and then they make their own decisions. Jamar made a poor and stupid decision that thousands of college kids make each year with only few learning the somber and scary results. To want the coach fired for this is assinine. Further, lets let the facts play out entirely before we blackball Jamar. Drinking and Driving is never a good decision and jamar has learned that lesson the hard way.
It is now time to concentrate on the games and who is left on the team and how they might contribute — Bruce is a brilliant in-game coach and tournaments are his time to shine. Lets get past Penn St and deal with the games that follow that will lead us back to the promise land where we are definetly a team noone wants to face early.
Lay of guenther for issues outside of his control and lay of BRUCE ALMIGHTY for treating Luther like an wounded college student and same for McBride. Lets rally round the boys as its now tourny time and you know what…..if you can’t say anything positive get up and walk away from the computer and try doing something positive with your life instead of ranting about the ILLINI. ITS GO TIME - LETS DO IT BOYS. ILL baby INI
March 7th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Your idea to ignore certain posters is a good one, Jessica(70). RPIC Editor Boy used to say “Do not feed the trolls”. It is hard though, to not respond to an asinine statement when it comes along.
Like Jimmy Dee, I will proudly call myself a Friend Of Weber. Go Illini!
March 7th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
It appears that many contributors cannot distinguish the difference between committing an illegal act and getting caught committing the act.There is a significant difference.
Many of us violate laws and rules every day. Traffic laws are routinely violated and we sometimes drink and drive. Many of us did this during our college days and many continue to do so. The problems arise when we are caught.It is at this point that we are faced with consequences.The fact that many others do the same things is irrelevent and not a viable defense.
Recent events indicate that individuals have been caught in violation of the law. They must now face consequences.
Many of the ideas submitted recently to improve athlete behavior do not go to reducing or eliminating the behavior but rather to avoid being caught. Limousines, breath analyzers, escorts and “baby sitters” are all aimed at not being caught. They do however enable bad behavior.
The true solution lies in a strict code of conduct that student athletes must commit to and which is strictly enforced by the Athletic Dept.If this adversely affects recruiting - so be it!
March 7th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I can assume none of you make a significant donation to the university in terms of over 6 figures so no matter what you think of coach Weber or Gunther it ain’t gona make no difference.
March 8th, 2007 at 10:34 am
#96-Dexter. Amen, my brother, Amen! Couldn’t agree with you anymore. Time for our boys to start earning their scholarships. Need a minimum of two wins to guarantee we are in. Go Illini!
March 8th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
I think it is a sad comment on our society when everything comes down to whether or not we make the NCAA tournament. Let the players break the law (after all we all did it when we were kids) as long as we have a winning team that’s all that matters.
Leaving a critically wounded teammate in a car after being so drunk you wrap it around a tree is a sign of a lack of character to me. I read the article in the Peoria paper and I must say that it helped put things in perspective. But the fact that Jamar was SO DRUNK that he was incoherent does not seem like much of an excuse to me. Actually it is a blessing that he did not hit and kill innocent people on the road that night and that Brian was the only one injured. Yes, but for the grace of God go you or I but does that mean that we were right when we did it?
If we do not start to teach our young people that there are consequences for irresponsible behavior and that they must face those consequences then I fear for the future of our society. As a matter of fact this is a trend that has been happening for quite some time. There are no consequences for criminal or unacceptable behavior in our society. Just look at the NBA. I not longer watch NBA games because most of the players are thugs. They are constantly breaking the law and yet because of their “star status” they very seldom have to face any real consequences.
I was very disappointed to see Jamar at the game that evening. Even if Brian motioned Jamar to come sit on the bench, Brian was also in that car that evening totally wasted and if he is not 21 he was also drinking illegally (I know, I know we all did it). But what kind of example is this to other younger kids who are watching? Oh, it’s okay to go out drink , drive, have an accident, almost kill your friend, leave the scene of an accident, leave your friend in the car, because you can still go back to the next game. Maybe you can’t play but all your friends and the coach will be there for you and it will all blow over with time. After all you didn’t mean to do it and you were so drunk you really couldn’t be responsible for your behavior or what happened.
Should the coach be fired? I don’t think so, but I do think that he should think about what his actions say to the community and the rest of the country.
March 9th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
87-Buffalo - “that school’s athletic department” was Illinois!! (Or do you not know who is your women’s track coach?)And NO, not ALL students are faced with the necessity of passing a certain number of hours to remain athletically eligible. It wasn’t a question of finding “anything that’s available”. It was a question of finding a course that was easily passable, taught by a prof. who was sympathetic to athletes so she would have enough hours (APR) to compete. That is EXACTLY how the “system” is circumvented. APR’s have NOTHING to do with grades or GPA’s, only with the minimum hours earned to be eligible according to the standards set up by the NCAA. That is what Bob Knight was talking about with the “One and out” kids who attend a year of college only to make themselves eligible to enter the NBA draft. In most cases they don’t even go to class the second semester, because they are eligible based on the first semester’s hours and they won’t be there next year. And the coaches I talked to had nearly all manipulated the system to make themselves and their programs look good.
IliniFarmer - You obviously knew who I was talking about, so what’s the big deal? You can spell Jamar. Wonderful. Good for you.
Thanks X-man. It’s just like when I officiated and called a Tech. on a coach who then lost. It was MY Tech that cost him the game. I always responded that no, it was HIS behavior that cost him the game. It’s the ACTION, people, not the reaction.
BeckyB - One of the best posts ever.
And Algonquin (did I spell that right Farmer?) Bill: Weber has said on more than one occasion that he was “unhappy with the lack of execution”. That’s coachspeak for “They won’t listen to me or do what I tell them.” And when they go out drinking and driving less than 3 hours after Weber has just advised them not to do so, I would say he doesn’t have control of them ANYWHERE. What makes you think he does?
Oh yes, and be prepared should the Illini not make the Dance. I hope they do, but it is VERY CLOSE. OSU Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, and Purdue all have Sagarin Rankings AHEAD of Illinois as of Thursday’s USA today. Illinois is rated 44th, but their rank if 57th. That doesn’t leave much room to make a 65 team field with a large number of conference tournament winners that are lower in rating and rank. I think we need 3 wins in the BTT.