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Joe living in morton, IL says:
March 16th, 2007 at 11:52 pm

It was definitely a bad ending to an interesting season. Tup, I know you will never say it, but I wish you would, the refs screwed us. That isnt to say they are the only reason, but we were getting hacked to pieces and not getting foul calls, and they were getting every call it seemed.

You can spare me the whole “that wasnt the only reason illinois lost” I know that, but in a game that was that close, it seems even close to equal treatment by the refs would have been nice. Carter about had his arms ripped of at the end and Pruit got undercut and nothing was called.

In the end, seeing this teams season end will at least end me having to watch them.

GO ILLINI!

TM says:
March 16th, 2007 at 11:52 pm

thank god this season is over. Tough to watch this bunch

Will Leitch says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:03 am

When you really think about it, the season sorta couldn’t have ended any other way.

Rock says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:59 am

So, my question is did Ron Guenther do what Gregg Doyel wrote he did?
See http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10064832
to read about what happened. That’s probably a tough question for Mark to answer, since he’s local reporter and his job requires at least cordial relations with the Illinois Athletic Department. Was anybody else at the game that can confirm the story?

Assuming it’s true, the AD’s behavior was unprofessional and an embarrassment to the University of Illinois. I expect more from a school funded with my tax dollars. Win or lose, it’s not a big deal. But run a program with some class. It shouldn’t be too much to ask. Pathetic.

albie says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:59 am

There are a lot of good things to say about the Illini’s season, but as a fan it was not terribly enjoyable season or a terribly satisfying one and the future has a lot more troubling questions than confident answers.

Ron from California says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:00 am

Tough way to end the season, seems like the Illini wanted to go into the four corners offense, but that hasn’t worked for quite some time……there’s always next year.

Requesting A Change says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:23 am

Let’s bring in Billy Gillispie. Ron Guenther and Bruce need to be shown the door. We are slipping, and afst.

Ryan Christie says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:32 am

Weber has to go. I’ve been saying it for a long time. He’s in over his head at this level, and he has been from Day One. Can’t wait for this era of Illini hoops to end and the next coach to come on board.

Disgusted Illini Fan says:
March 17th, 2007 at 2:39 am

How in the world did we lose this game? I am truly in a haze….please..somebody wake me up and tell me that we are not back to the days of “Chocking Illini” as I am having that nightmare all over again. One couldn’t lose a game like this even if one had tried to…and yet we did.

Six points in the last ten minutes of the game? Somebody has got to tell Mr. Weber that this is what happens when you don’t have a single blue chip recruit on your roster…B type of players chocke big time in a tight game and on a big stage like this…but, Then again, these guys have been chocking in close games all year. And, boy, was Mr. Weber ever out-coached by Mr. Greenberg in the last 6-7 minutes…and he received absolutely no help from his worthless assistants. His assistant coaches sit on the bench like bunch of lumps on a log, brain-locked (or should I say brain-dead) if you ever saw one. These guys can neither recruit nor help their boss on tight spots in a game…what the heck are they good for? I’d fire them all if I were Mr. Weber.

What an embarrassment of a game on a big stage and on national TV…particularly at a time when IL had to prove all the critics of its inclusion in the tournament wrong…it failed miserably. all this at atime when all our “six degrees of seperation” folks (i.e., Bill Self, Lon Kruger, Mat Painter, Lowery and all other Big Ten teams) were doing just fine…we were the only loser that stunk the joint. And what does that say about the current state of our basketball program? Thanks Mr. Guenther…here is another nice mess you’ve got IL into. Your legacy, better know as sattling IL with a “culture of losing” is working just perfectly…you creep!

Thank God this nightmare of a basketball season is over…and what is the next U of I losing sport program that we’d have the pleasure to look forward to? Oh yes, the women softball!

OK all you homers…your time to defend Guenther now…let’s hear it.

theprofessor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 6:28 am

Until the collapse in the face of full-court pressure one might argue that Illinois played one of it’s best games of the season.

Thank you for the excellent reporting and insightful commentary this year!!!!!

sbIllini says:
March 17th, 2007 at 6:37 am

I’m interested to hear anyone defend Weber, and rationalize him being the head coach of a high major program. And please don’t quote his winning percentage during his tenure here. It’s obvious those numbers are falling fast, now that it’s his program with his recruits.

Fire Ron Guenther says:
March 17th, 2007 at 7:26 am

Losing like that was just pathetic. As for Guenther, his behavior, if true, warrants the BOT firing him. I am sure the homers on this board will defend Mr. 64-106-2 to the death.

The women’s soccer team wouldn’t have choked like that!

j says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:09 am

mark - soccer is europe’s problem - keep up the great work.

Rock says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:11 am

I honestly hope SIU’s Lowery takes the Minnesota job and Weber gets to return SIU. He was happy there and at this point he must just want this nightmare at UI to be over. Who would want to work for someone screaming at them and demeaing their players in a game like Guenther? Who would want to coach a bunch of guys that don’t listen to you? That have so little respect for the coach and program that they would go out and do what Jamar Smith did. Please Bruce, if you can, go back to SIU. I fell sorry for the incoming recruits, they deserve a better situation than this. Dee Brown and Deron Williams did Wirght and Collins a huge favor in telling them to go to Kansas instead of UI. What an absolute embarrassment the program is. Who would want to play for a University that treats it’s players as classlessly as Guenther treated Warren Carter in last game as an Illini.

TD says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:15 am

Tup, with all due respect, the local
Illini media have let Weber off the hook all season long. No one that I can recall, has ever asked Weber why his players continuously make mental
mistakes over and over again, and make poor passes, poor decisions, lack intensity when they need it, etc?

Weber has to go.

I think the swell of Dump Weber is rising and it make have its origina in Guenthers office. I totally agree with with most of what Greg Doyel said in his column, and quite frankly, wonder why the local Illini media has constantly let Weber off the hook for Weber losing games. Weber once again shrugs his shoulder with excuse that “the kids
played hard”. But it is the same glaring problems we have seen over and over again - mental mistakes,
HUGE mental mistakes. Lack of mental
discipline, lack of intensity and focus. Stupid turnovers, bad passes, embarrassing free throw shooting, and as Doyel points out, a court full of less than mediocre talent with I believe the exception of Pruitt. Weber lost this game and every other game because he cannot recruit nor can he lead or motivate and the proof is how the Illini played all season long. I applaud Guenther for yelling orders to Weber and yelling at Carter - someone has to do it because Weber sure as hell won’t. Time for Weber to go. He cannot lead, coach or recruit at the level we need. No wonder he was an asst at Purdue for 18 years.

BigJack1000 says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:35 am

Just a few facts!

Weber has not been at Illinois long enough to know whether or not he can recruit the hot dogs of the world. Maybe he can’t, but a good assistant could. What we do know is that he can coach! Look at SIU the main players on that team were recurited by Weber and how many years in a row did SIU go to the NCAA with him at the helm.

Weber can his players play well above their capabilites and turn good players into great players. Do any of you remember Deron Williams and Luther Head? He made all of the players from that team better. Just ask any one of them who taught them and helped them make it to the NBA it wasn’t Bill Self.

Weber can’t possibly screw up the basketball future at Illinois near as much as Lou Hensen did. If Hensen, Self or Kruger had these players they would have been doing good to have won 15 games.

Mr Realistic says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:38 am

The Illini have no one to blame but themselves. The Refs didn’t screw us (although it was a critical no call) - Illinois should never have been in that situation at the end of the game in the first place. Warren looked scared. Randle looked clue-less as always. Chester just doesn’t have offensive skills. Not sure how McBride, a senior playing in his last game, gets cramps during a critical stretch. Pruitt just flat out came up short (although only guy worth a darn in my opinion - he has heart). Trent is just not an athlete who can perform at this level

Weber needs some big time recruits in a hurry, or it’s time for him to move on (I think he has 1, maybe 2 more classes at best). It’s the reality. He needs to adjust his recruiting style - it’s not 1987. The Bobby Knight - Gene Keady discipline era is over, kids don’t want a hard nosed coach telling them their “you know what” stinks. How long do we praise Bruce for sticking to this approach. It may be too late already, but I say 1 or 2 more classes. There is nothing in the tank - next year is going to be even more painful.

BTW - I hope Jamar is not allowed back. I want to give him benefit of the doubt, but he almost killed someone, could have killed others if he hadn’t hit that tree first and let this whole team/fan base down. We could have used his offense late in the season (if he could have found his stroke). Everyone makes bad mistakes - but drinking and driving is not acceptable. Our society seems to give it lip service - harsh sentences would make people think much more. Ask anyone who has lost an innocent someone to this criminal act.

In summary, I ask a simple question - would fans rather have a bunch of blue chip athletes who underachieve / under-coached (but could win it all - think Lou Henson or Bill Self), or a bunch of mid-major recruits who overachieve and are “well coached?” While blue chips can be just as disappointing (and let’s face it - more disappointing judging by Austin Peay), they are a heck of a lot more fun to watch.

Bring on football. Our hopes are going sky high and will be knocked to the ground when the Big Ten games start. Not trying to be negative, but its just part of being an Illini fan - it gives us our identity.

Roger says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:46 am

Living in Ohio and having to watch the Buckeyes dominate in football and basketball is hard to take for an Illini fan. It just seems to me that Illinois just can’t hire a quality coach and keep them. It seems as though Bruce Weber is a good guy and a decent x & o guy. From what I see and hear from him there is a reason he was an assistant all those years. Again, Illinois hires coaches that are first level rejects. I will always be a fan but I know we are forever relegated to the middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Having to be happy with moral victories and “great defensive play” get old sometimes.

Mike says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:04 am

Duke and their 6 hamburger kids lose to an 11 seed in the first round. Syracuse and UConn didn’t even get in. By the standards of so many self-loathing Illini fans, Coach K, Calhoun, and Boeheim — HOF’rs all, aren’t qualified to coach a high-major program.

I don’t know what makes any of you think Billy G would be the slightest bit interested in the Illinois job. We might be able to get Alford after Iowa fires him, or maybe Stan Heath from Arkansas so he can stay a step ahead of the posse. Firing Weber isn’t going to solve anything.

Forrest says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:09 am

The embarressment of the Austin Peay loss can finally be layed to rest. This was a huge embarressment to the Illini basketball program. I would hope that coach Weber, his assistants, the players, and AD Guenther, are ready to look in the mirror and start addressing the the state of the program.

Ben says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:11 am

Have we all lost our minds, we had another twenty plus win season agian and people are complaining. No wonder people that aren’t illini fans call us the whinin illini. We don’t have a vast tradition of basketball we have been good but not great. Bruce Weber is a great coach too have four years of pretty damn good success thats good. Northwesteren is doing shitty but improving and people there are having high hopes. We get a twelve seed lose a damn close game we maybe shouldn’t of been in and people are asking for Bruce to be fired. All the people that are complaining should be ashamed of themseleves. Now if we were a Duke, North Carolina or even eww Kansas program and losing in the first round or not having twenty five wins or more and a trip to at least final four then you can be mad. But we are Illinois we are good if we have a good season and our players like Brock, Trent, and these three star players play with potential that is damn good coaching to me. So stop complaining and we don’t need blue chip athletes unless we want to pay them like Ohio State how do they have five star players commiting for the next four years…..MONEY it makes the world go round it made Michigans world go round in the 90’s.
GO ILLINI and Keep bruce almighty

Jim says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:12 am

This season with the whole hold it and run clock at the end of the game and then lose the game reminded me so much of a few Henson years long ago. I’m not saying that Weber was in the wrong for calling the play but to be effective at the end of games we need players with some freshness in their legs and heads.

I like Weber and still think he’s right for the program but my positive views of him are shrinking. He doesn’t seem to like to use any depth whatsoever. Even during that magical 2005 season when we would be up 20, he had a hard time with using his bench. I recall Lon Kruger once commenting on the difficulty of using his bench when we had so many good(not great) players just before he left so I know it’s not easy to do. He told the public that it was something he had to rethink and learn how to use better.

Weber needs to do the same but that depth also has to be good enough to come in and hold their own. Carter has proven over and over that he couldn’t handle alot of minutes most of the time. Some of this could even be due to the fact that this year was the first year he had the ability to get alot of minutes. It was exhausting for him and others. I think it was more of a mentally exhausting issue than anything. This doesn’t just apply to Carter but others as well. That can contribute to the poor, boneheaded decisions on the court.

With that all said I still appreciate what they did accomplish this season. It truly only stings because of that magical year otherwise I and others would look at this as being close to an average Illini year or maybe slightly below average.

The program isn’t dead or dying. I’m actually looking forward to the class coming in. They get to come in without the shadow of the 2005 season over them. We also get to see players like Semrau and Carlwell with one more year of maturity under their belt and then there’s the continued development of Pruitt in a positive direction. Much of that is looking up in my eyes.

Randle worries me though. He doesn’t carry himself like he used to. He strikes me as someone dealing with depression or some other inner demons. I felt bad for him as the press captured his comments that he felt he lost the game. We wouldn’t have been in it without those 12 rebounds. Hopefully he can bounce back next year. I’m not expecting him to suddenly make every free throw or stop fouling but he needs to get back to having fun out there.

And, so comes next year. I don’t see Smith being back. Frazier still has alot of work left to become a good point guard. I can’t wait to see the energy that the new guys bring though. That’s always fun to watch.

JAW says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:13 am

An AD’s job is to put a program in the best position to win. Period.

RG has failed time and time again on this front. He’s an abject failure no matter what you believe an athletic association should accomplish. From a winning-is-the-only-thing standpoint, RG should have been shown the door long ago. Obvious. But even from a these-are-students-and-athletes perspective, U of I’s major sports academic standing is embarrassing. Another tally in the “Fire RG” column. And if there’s even a hint of truth to this column, well, strike three.

No matter how you look at it, RG should be out. But that takes courage and leadership, something the BOT (as well as this hoops squad) seriously lacks.

As far as basketball goes, simply stated, RG got tired of being turned down for the position and settled on hiring a mid-major coach to spearhead a major program. Don’t blame Weber. I would jump at an opportunity over my head as well. Big paycheck. Big spotlight. Where do I sign? Yes, Weber recruited well at SIU and had his team in the tourney often. But SIU, even if you add up three years worth of opponents, has never played a schedule anything like Illinois. Sad truth, it takes years to recover from failure and only moments to screw up success. Weber is proving that every second.

And it’s RG’s fault he’s here. Too bad the beat guys we count on to raise these questions have been asleep at the wheel since 2005. As for Tups, don’t blame him for not calling out Weber and Co. here or in print. Most local media types wait on the national media to turn up the heat and then they can join the fray. That way, they keep access and receive no blame for starting the problems.

Yes, it’s a frustrating day for the Illini. But hate to tell you, if nothing changes, we’ve yet to bottom out.

theprofessor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:49 am

I asked this question a couple of times this year, but here is is one more time.

Had there been any year in the the last three decades where Illinois has recruited the top two or three players out of the Chicago-land area?

How many years in the last three decades has Illinois recruited one or two five star players?

Can anyone point me to a place on the web which has data on the history of Illinois basketball recruitig?

People seem to suggest that Weber must go in order to somehow restore the great recruiting tradition at Illinois.

I am not so sure this tradition has ever existed has it??????

Jan B says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:55 am

Just like I said in Tup’s last blog, all season we have played not to lose and opposed to playing to win. Once Illinois had a descent size lead all season, it was hold the ball for 34 seconds, force up a bad shot or just turn the ball over. That’s why we didn’t finish off games this season like last night, Mich St, etc, etc! I’ve been a BW fan and thought he was a good coach that just can’t recruit but now after this final loss, I’m just about ready to jump ship and go to the fire Bruce dark side. Changes, major changes have to be made either by this coach or a new one or a new assistant that has some recruiting skills. Next year..under 500 in the Big Ten and no invite to the “Big Dance”.

albie says:
March 17th, 2007 at 10:05 am

Someone put a face on the criticism of Ron Guenther. His name is Greg Doyel. This guy has a picture and evidently he is paid money to write in cyberspace as opposed to the rest of us who criticize Guenther for free with screen names. I do not know Ron Guenther and have never met him, but if this guy says he is a jerk, then people in the know like Mark Tupper are in a position to refute it if it is not true. I believe Ron Guenther should be fired, not for anything said about him in that article, but for his record. When I graduated from the U of I in the early seventies, Illinois athletic fortunes were not good, but it could be said that at least if the Illini beat Northwestern it could claim to have the best D1 football program in the state, and Illinois usually did beat Northwestern in football. In the decades which followed Illinois built up a basketball program as did DePaul and Bradley. But with the exception of the glory years for Ray Meyer, it became the rule rather than the exception that Illinois had the best D1 basketball team in the state. Under Ron Guenther things have deteriorated. NIU has become a D1 force in football and SIU has a BB team which is at least top twenty. My expectations have been greatly lowered, and unlike the seventies, it is no longer likely that if Illinois can beat Northwestern in football (which it cannot) then at least alumnus like myself has a little claim on which to hang their hat. My expectations are not unreal involving Rose Bowls and Big Ten titles, I expect the Illini to have either the best D1 FB or BB in the state, I am not talking about national powerhouses here, simply the best in the state. Today under Ron Guenther alumni like myself can make neither claim. For all the Ron Guenther defenders and I have used the word defenders because it is much more apt than supporters, I pose the following question. When under Mr. Guenther can the Illini expect to return to those glory years of the seventies, when no matter what, Illinois could claim at least to have one of the best D1 teams in the state for the two major sports? I will not cause you embarrassment by asking when if ever, Illinois could claim to have BOTH of the best D1 teams in the state, because that it is bar just too high for a “nice of guy” as Mr. Doyel apparently thinks Mr Guenther is.

geezergeek says:
March 17th, 2007 at 10:18 am

I wish I had turned it off at halftime. Talk about your deer caught in the headlights! At least the Simeon game was entertaining.

Zach says:
March 17th, 2007 at 10:50 am

I’d much rather have watched a moronic soccer game than whatever it was that posed as an Illini basketball game last night.

Anonymous says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:06 am

Ben (21) - We have the 10th/11th best all-time winning pct in D-1. We have a lot of fine history but have always been in the shadow of superior IU teams. And it’s simply unacceptable to say “good enough.”

Yesterday’s collapse was embarrassing. We played fine defense and even shot well but the TOs were mind-boggling. I thought I would never see such willful thorwing away of the ball on offense as I did when we playing at MSU in January. Yesterday they topped it.

About Weber… hats off to him for instilling defense in this team. Without it they would have been lucky to get to the NIT. On the other hand, how did we end up with a team that can not score? That’s his fault. I don’t care how many injuries we had. Talent is the issue.

That Doyel column on Sportline.com is devastating. And most likely true. Those of you looking forward to the future are looking forward to mediocrity. That’s what this season was.

The lack of character and desire to win yesterday was appalling. I truly feel sorry for Brian because he is obviously really down on himself. Same for Jamar. However, as VPI’s coach Seth Greenberg pointed out, VPI’s hardships (considerable) were not self-inflicted; the Illini’s (ex injuries) have been.

I am not optimistic about next season. Someone please help me change that :>). I can’t recall when during the past 30 years the basketball program has been in such disarray as it is now.

Jimmy Dee says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:15 am

A disappointing loss, to be sure, but I’ll stay away from addressing the usual “Fire Weber, Fire Guenther, How Come We’re the Worst Major College Athletic Program In The World” morons. In trying to find a few silver linings in the dark clouds of last night’s loss, I’ve got these:

1. If we had to lose to anyone from the ACC, at least it was Virginia Tech. The upstart newcomer from the Big East has shaken up the traditional ACC power structure, as evidenced by their win at Duke this year and two over North Carolina. Not to mention their coach Seth Greenberg is a good guy and a class act and their players seem like good kids who endured the sort of tumultuous season last year the we did this year. And even though it would be nice to live another day, I would rather not have been the team to knock SIU out of the tournament (if we could have) and I absolutely would not have been able to stomach being beaten by Kansas.

2. If they beat SIU, VT is the only team from our pod who has a chance to beat Kansas in the Sweet Sixteen. After our loss, my sole motivation in watching the tournament anymore is to see Kansas lose. I don’t even worry about Indiana. They’re gone after tonight.

3. I can now return to my regularly scheduled life and look to the future of Illini basketball. Our team next year will be dramatically different than this year’s, with the arrival of at least four new recruits, two transfers becoming eligible and the return of Semrau and Carlwell after season-ending injuries this year. This does not have to be the start of some apocolyptic downturn in the program. It’s just a bump in the road that still resulted in an NCAA tournament appearance.

Ned R. says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:19 am

I’m scared that I’m writing on this blog for a second day in a row and I’m even more scared that I read Jay Mariotti’s column this morning in the Sun-Times. After watching the joke last night and reading one of his venom-filled pieces of crap, I guess it really is true there are firsts for everything. The scariest thing is that everything Mariotti wrote is 100 percent accurate. The program has fallen fast and should be playing on the second weekend of the tournament EVERY year.

Also, what Greg Doyel wrote on CBS Sportsline is 100 percent accurate. It sucks, but it’s true. For Guenther to be acting like that is embarrassing — go find a skybox and pound your fist up there. He must be arrogant enough not to care what people think about his behavior. Just like high-profile student/athletes need to monitor their behavior more than “normal” students (like not wrapping cars around trees in blizzards and spitting on bouncers at bars), administrators need to know they are not “normal” fans. His behavior is not excusable but still has nothing to do with the fact that we have virtually no players in our program that other top-flight programs would wish they had on their teams. That’s the most pressing issue — I really don’t care if an idiot administrator acts like a child, but I do care that our team stinks.

I don’t think Weber or Guenther need to be fired, since Weber is a very good coach and Guenther has run the athletic program well in his tenure there (new facilities, successful programs, with football being the notable exception) but someone like Tracy Webster or Wayne McLain need to be replaced so we can maybe get some decent players onto the team. Jay Price, I don’t think, is asked to do much recruiting and I’m sure whatever his responsibilities are, he does them well. Getting a kid out of Peoria every three years shouldn’t give McLain a lifetime contract. If there actually was big-time talent coming out of there, maybe I’d feel differently. And I don’t consider Brian Randle or Jamar Smith big-time talent (Randle may be talented but is obviously one of the biggest head cases of recent memory, nice muscle flex, though, after making one of his three baskets of this month). Not even bringing up the actual city of Chicago, do you know how much talent comes out of the same south suburbs of Chicago that Tracy Webster grew up in? Within 20 seconds I came up with Dwyane Wade (sp?), Jerel McNeal (2007 Big East Defensive Player of the Year as a sophomore) and Mustapha Farrakhan, who turned us down for Virginia after we made a last-ditch token effort to recruit him this fall after Derrick Rose turned us down.

One last point. I still can’t believe that Patrick Beverley is playing at Arkansas. He practically begged to be given a scholarship by Illinois. How do you screw that up? This kid will play in the NBA and was SEC Newcomer of the Year. To say that he would have been the best player on this joke of an Illini team as a freshman is a massive understatement. So he had never been onto campus and so what he supposedly didn’t want to offer his transcript. He obviously qualified academically, since he played this year. Is it stupid that a kid would commit to a school without ever having visited the campus? Absolutely. But unfortunately, we aren’t talking about future engineering majors — these are basketball players who just so happen to have to go to college to keep playing basketball. Last time I checked this new recruit we have, Quinton Watkins from LA, was offered a scholarship a couple of months ago and probably hasn’t even set foot on this side of the Mississippi River in his life. From what I hear, he’s a really good player, but why was he offered a scholarship and not Beverley. Big-time programs can’t make so many big-time recruiting missteps. I don’t know exactly what happened but when one of the best players in the country is dying to come to Illinois, like Beverley was, LET HIM!!

bugillini says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:25 am

I’ve never posted before as I usually just let things ride but after watching the last game of the season thought I’d share some thoughts on this season.

I can’t help but express how weird this year has been. First of all, the loss of Chief is just a mystery to me and the most signficant of the year. I have just a somber feeling about this whole realization of our American society how a small voice can affect the majority and over trivial matters. I see it over and over in all areas of life. When will it end? Seems to be nothing safe. I’m Irish descent and I don’t find “Fighting Irish” insulting. I don’t even like Notre Dame! I find it amazing how something like Chief is targeted as “offensive” and yet “Blue Devils”, “Blue Demon” and “Demon Deacons” are just fine.

Back to basketball and Illini. I think Weber is a great X and O’s coach and can win games but to win BIG games on a high level and win them often and consistently (year after year) takes more than that; takes blue-chip talent. Weber just isn’t that kind of pull. He has a terrible “people” personality, IMO.

My reasoning behind that is I was involved in one of his coaching clinics in 05. I was doing a booth (sports business) and had both my twin daughters (7yrs old) w/me decked out in their Illini gear head to toe. James Augustine and Dee Brown both stopped to talk w/them and sign their basketball. Weber walked right by them all day w/out so much as a pat on the head. Bill Self on the other hand, would stop and talk and even give you things. I remember we went inside the basketball facility one day to look at it during tailgating. All the lights were off and I don’t’ think we were suppose to be in there but the door was unlocked so went in (was about 8 of us). Bill came out of his office w/a big smile on his face and just was as nice as could be. Talked to us for awhile, showed us the office area and gave us a bunch of big posters and such. We left on our own; he didn’t make us feel we were intruding or anything. I can’t see Weber doing that. Bill always had open practices and that’s one of the first things Weber did was go to closed practices.

I’m afraid Weber is going to be another Gene Keady–pretty good coach but never got any talent to do anything nationally, let alone consistently. How do you lose the top guard in the nation at the midnight hour? Did he watch Jerry McGuire or something? Regardless of whether Sampson told him what was going on or not, how do you not know the kid is swaying? Also, how do you not sign the top player in the state from your brother’s team after being ranked #1 nearly the entire year and play in the nat’l champ game?

That’s what I see the program as being for the future. I hope I’m proved to be wrong and Weber actually can get at least one major recruit every year/other year. I don’t know what the current class is ranked coming in next year but it needs to be a really, really good one to offset the last 3.

This program is missing skilled talent. Not to diss any players; Trent Meacham is a great kid, but he should be one of the guys that don’t get to take off their warmups unless it’s blowout. As for his friend that transferred from South Dakota…ditto. The kid from Indiana State that transferred should never see the court either. I live in Terre Haute and the ISU team SUCKS! Why they brought him to Ill is blowing my mind.

Randle- he just finished his 4th year at this level, several conference championships and the glorious NCAA championship year and yet he looks like he’s a freshmen still. What you got is what you got w/him. He’s not going to magically be something different next year (his 5th). He is missing swaggar and toughness to inspire his athleticism. Someone needs to punch him in the mouth before every game to get him fired up and motivated. He and Pruitt need shot doctors (see below).

Pruitt is the best player coming back next year by far. Someone on the staff needs to fix his free throw shooting form (or hire someone to do it as it appears they don’t know how) and have him shoot 500 every day and recording his performance. We can win a lot of games if he shoots 70% at the line which is still not great but better.

Warren Carter- gonna miss him but I’ll bet he’s wishing he redshirted his freshmen year. I know I am.

Marcus- what ever happened to the guy that played at ISU that scored the 30 points (or there about) on James Augustine at Assembly Hall!? Absolutely a mystery on why they brought him in.

Calvin- still got a huge upside if he doen’t pull a “randle”. Work on shooting and getting swaggar.

Charlie Jackson- why did you not redshirt?! Wow! see Warren Carter comment. what a wasted year.

Chester- applaud heart and effort. work on Ft’s and court vision (if coaches can’t help, make phone call to Deron Williams).

Carlwell- rest and therapy (don’t get fat!)

Jamar- jury’s out. not sure he’ll be back. work on slashing getting open.

It’s starts w/drawing talent and that’s what needs to be addressed, IMO. This program seems to sign what the can “get” not who we “want”. Wild cards are the incoming class and Semrau(sp?). Never got to see enough of him to gauge. Would be nice to have a pointguard who can come in like the freshman at IU (Bassett?). He’s agressive, drives, penetrates, dishes and even scores. The kid makes it happen. Reminds me of Williams as a soph.

L.S. says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:31 am

For the first time, I’m in agreement with FRG. Ron Guenther’s behavior is embarrassing and the university should be ashamed for having such a jerk represent the school!

I don’t know if recruits read the silly stuff written on here, but Doyel’s article can’t help as Weber hits the recruiting trail this spring.

I wrote on Doyel’s blog and chastised him for poor reporting about the overall basketball program. Only 8 schools have played in every NCAA tournament this decade AND reached the Final Four during that time - and THREE are in the Big Ten: Illinois, Michigan State and Wisconsin. But you won’t hear that on ESPN and you definitely won’t read it in a Doyel or Parrish column on CBS Sportsline.

This team has been void of senior leadership from the opening practice (interestingly, the seniors were Bill Self recruits…hmmmm!) Next year will be better, given the health issues/distractions of this season aren’t repeated in the same numbers.

Let’s be positive about this — how many programs can say a 23-win season and 1st round NCAA ouster is a DOWN year?!?!

ATOIllini says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:33 am

Did anyone besides me cringe when Brian Randle actually made a nice pivot dribble followed by a dunk in the first half only to go into that Popeye pose as he went back down the court? Somehow I thought “Why is he doing that?” Recounting the mental mistakes in the last 8 minutes could fill up an entire book (is airballing a free throw mental or physical?). Anyway, an entirely fitting end to an almost comically tragic season. Here’s hoping Martez Wilson, Benn & Co. turn out to be the real deal!

don lawhead says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:43 am

Illinois basketball is on a downward spiral. Our best recuirt next year is a skinny claa a 7 footer that couldn’t even get his team to the claas a finals.Whom knows when the spiral will stop.

DLM says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

As an Illini fan, I was disappointed to see Illinois lose to VT. However, I for one am sick and tired of reading comments by some who think they have the simple solution. Yes, Illinois does need more and better players. Are blue chip recruits the only answer? How many blue chip recruits does Wisconsin have? The fab five at Michigan never won a national championship and Webber’s 6th timeout call in the national championship game was as dumb as it gets. UConn did not make the NCAA this year even though they have won 2 national championships. So down years happen. Personally, I think Coach Bruce Weber has done a remarkable job. Anyone who thinks that what they see a team do on the court is exactly what a coach wants has obviosly never coached. Our own kids don’t do everything we want them to do. The 06-07 Illini were not a very intelligent playing team. As a coach, I have had teams which included several honor students. However, as a basketball team, these same players played dumb. I would just like to see the blame directed to the correct place. No coach is going to say in a press conference that I just have a group of dump players. I feel confident that things will improve in the future. I’m afrid that so much nagativity will lead to a self fulfilling prophecy (good player will stay away because too many are too nagative). We all want better and more responsible players. I think our best opportunity to get those players will come if we can all be as positive as possible without being dishonest.

Bill from CA says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

I’m in a bad mood for many reasons, including the Illini. I’m tired of watching Illinois lose, especially in gut-wrenching ways the whole country bashes us for. I’m tired of Hoosier diehards bashing us and getting away with it because we can’t win the big ones or get the top recruits.

I’ve read the two articles from Greg Doyel and have to agree Guenther must be shown the door ASAP. All asst. coaches should be replaced with those who can recruit. We should only recruit good character MENTALLY TOUGH players who will listen to coaches, develop their games, stop making dumb mistakes, hit free throws and hit shots at the end of games.

I’ve read two Chicago Tribune articles about Patrick Beverly of Arkansas being VERY bitter about Illinois not giving him a scholarship. Weber sat on Gordon and Rose, letting go a kid from Chicago who wanted to go to Illinois, can hit free throws, is very quick and was seen as an upcoming star (from the quote below from the AP article about USC beating Arkansas). Beverly can’t shoot well yet, makes some silly turnovers and his bitterness shows his lack of character, but if he was an Illini, we win the VT game and several others just from his free throw shooting and athleticism. Illinois could’ve had a Chicago kid who’s better than any on the team, but blew it.

(From AP)

“The Razorbacks (21-14) got 15 points from their own star freshman, guard Patrick Beverley, but saw their second straight season end unhappily in the first round of the tournament.”

Clear enough. Time for heads to roll. NOW. If the Trustees can roll over and easily get rid of the Chief, they can easily get rid of the AD Chief.

Jimmy Chitwood says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:33 pm

Quite frankly the Illini did what we’ve seen them do all season and what we all feared would happen again.

I can’t say I disagreed with the CBS article. He said what many on here have been saying for years (yet WE can’t possibly be right because we are not writers??) I also don’t blame RG from yelling about Randle. Everyone could see he was CHOKING and needed to be pulled.
Not sure why BAM didn’t.

JC says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

Ok, I will. Choke job. The team never has had a go to player. From the Maryland game on, never improved in late game situations. RIP Illini 06-07.

Jake says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

Good point, professor. At no time has Illinois had a pipeline to the CPL. Not with Self and not with Weber. At no time does Illinois get dibs on recruits over Kansas, UNC, Duke, or sadly IU. I don’t know if Billy Gillespie would succeed where others have failed and I don’t know if he’d even want to come to Illinois. I do know that Weber has earned a pretty long leash after his successes here already. Anybody that won’t give the benefit of the doubt on future recruiting is severely lacking in loyalty and I’m glad my life doesn’t count on you.

The basketball team can be better next year. McCamey will get at least as much time as Chester got as a freshman. From what I hear, he is Dee Brown socially and can be counted on to lead in times of trouble. From the list of Jamar Smith, Calvin and Q-Dub, McBride can easily be replaced. The front-runner out of Semrau, Cole and Tisdale, can win a starting role, a la Augustine and start 4 years. The door is wide open for Pruitt and/or Randle to break out. There’s nothing holding them back except themselves.

Anyone remember we weren’t even supposed to be in the tournament? 12 seeds only win 32% of the time. This team overcame much adversity and entertained me for one. Sure there were about 20 opportunities to win that game last night, but it had to end sometime. Probably even saved some face by not getting beat by SIU or $elf, in an off year.

And football is a cool sport. True football, the dominant sport in virtually every country in the world sans the USA. (not just Europe) I don’t care if anybody else likes it. I got other message boards for people who share that interest with me.

I too am looking forward to the seeing Zook’s guys next year. The Defense and the unsackable Juice were already fun, now he’s added some more pieces to the arsenal.

charliebobjoe says:
March 17th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

I go all the way back to Sunderlage Kerr Bredar Eddleman Beach and Ridley..Never have I seen a more panic stricken coachless exhibition of basketball in all that time..Watching the game with friends everyone was saying(even with a ten point lead)that they would find some unlikely way of losing it and the did lose it including all their composure.A good high school team could show more class in the last four minutes than this bunch,shameful way to lose,all out panic from the coaching staff to the water boy-girl.The recruiting is non exsistence,we get the left overs after Kruger and Self take their pick..Sorry sorry bunch and the same goes for the University staff..The Chief gone,the basketball program is heading toward a black hole and only our new football coach seems on the right track..Here I expect a big time winner if Gunny doesn’t run him off too like he did Turner..Turner ended up by not recruiting and letting the Gunny dismiss him so he could still collect the salary for his remaining contract and head back to the Bears…Something is bad bad wrong when you go through three football and basketball coaches in thirty seven and a half minutes..Illinois from the dean to the bottom is “gutless”..goodby Chief..Let the minority rule..better change the name of our rivers states and landmarks..North Dakota=North Germania..South Dakota= South Germania..You get the idea..Yeah and they even lost the state basketball tournament..What a sleazy outfit..Whatever ..Go S.I.U…do what the fighting???? illini are incapable of doing..Losers all…..

imagine that says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

Weber stays but his assistants need to go. Nothing but a ragtime group of hanger-ons who will never advance to a head coaching job or benefit the program. They have taken the UofI for plenty….time for them to go.

Ned R. says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

a couple of responses the above #35 and #36 bloggers. #35 — Mike Tisdale is not our “best recruit”. McCamey out of St. Joe and Watkins from LA are both consistently rated in the country’s top 60 or 70 seniors. From what I read, Tisdale actually really played well down the stretch, so maybe he’ll be decent in a few years once he puts on weight. And I agree with #36 in his asking how many blue-chip recruits Wisconsin has. The answer is one — Butch, who was the first McDonald’s All-American to ever redshirt. Tucker was not highly recruited at all, but has developed into a first-round pick. And as mediocre as Kammron Taylor is (also not a highly-sought after recruit), he is better than any of our guards. I think it’s fair to say this is Wisconsin’s last top 10 season for a long time, but congrats to them — they earned it. Some of their players developed as they became older, something I hope can happen with some of our younger players.
Demitri McCamey would have been the best guard on this year’s team, which is a good hope for the future but not good for the present, as we all saw this year and especially last night.

Bill from CA says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

Mark, is it possible to discuss some changes with Weber before it’s too late (for him to lose his job or Illini fans to get too upset)? National writers have written about the size, passion and venom about Illinois blogs, so it’s obvious the natives are getting restless.

I’m surprised at what # 32 bugillini said about the Self and Weber camps. From what I’ve read, I would’ve expected the other way around — Weber to be congenial and Self to be aloof. Weber is too good of a guy and coach to have his career derailed by some easily corrected behaviors.

If Weber can get asst coaches who can recruit, can work at being more congenial and accept 4-star recruits while working on 5-star recruits (e.g. Patrick Beverley), it may enhance or even save his Illinois coaching career. PR and perceptions are all too important to people jobs like coaching to not pay attention to them.

I’ve copied bugillini’s words below that I’ve referred to:

“Back to basketball and Illini. I think Weber is a great X and O’s coach and can win games but to win BIG games on a high level and win them often and consistently (year after year) takes more than that; takes blue-chip talent. Weber just isn’t that kind of pull. He has a terrible “people” personality, IMO.

My reasoning behind that is I was involved in one of his coaching clinics in 05. I was doing a booth (sports business) and had both my twin daughters (7yrs old) w/me decked out in their Illini gear head to toe. James Augustine and Dee Brown both stopped to talk w/them and sign their basketball. Weber walked right by them all day w/out so much as a pat on the head. Bill Self on the other hand, would stop and talk and even give you things. I remember we went inside the basketball facility one day to look at it during tailgating. All the lights were off and I don’t’ think we were suppose to be in there but the door was unlocked so went in (was about 8 of us). Bill came out of his office w/a big smile on his face and just was as nice as could be. Talked to us for awhile, showed us the office area and gave us a bunch of big posters and such. We left on our own; he didn’t make us feel we were intruding or anything. I can’t see Weber doing that. Bill always had open practices and that’s one of the first things Weber did was go to closed practices.”

Tom Steinhart says:
March 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Last night was the beginning of the Curse of the Chief!

jimlentim says:
March 17th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

#34. Yea, I cringed at Randle’s “popeye” display after making a very good spin and dunk play. I see all that poising and chest thumping after making a nice play that a lot of players do as pure “look at me” selfishness. And it’s ridiculous and embarrassing for a player with Randle’s game to do it at all. But it’s a pretty common thing in sports these days.

theprofessor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

Patrick Beverly?

Let’s keep in mind we are also in one of the premier academic conferences in the country. We are not going to be able to recruit some players because of academic standards. Let’s not blame the coaches for inablityto recruit players who can not meet minimum academic standards.

Wheaton John says:
March 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

Another tough weekend to be an Illini fan. Two comments: 1.) Has Weber maintained or improved the b-ball program from when he took it over? There is an increadible sense of dread now. The answer is obvious. 2.) When will the Central Illinois sportwriters show the courage to write an accurate article about where Ron Guenther has taken to athletic program? Looks the football, women’s basketball, men’s track, men’s basketball, men’s baseball programs. Mark, you are too silent on his. It’s time for an accurate accounting of what Guenther has done. Does he deserve to act as arrogant as he seems? The free pass has got to end. Loren Tate won’t say it. It’s up to you Mark. Step-up.

L.S. says:
March 17th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

Let’s address many of the recruiting/personnel questions on here, shall we??

Patrick Beverly — the kid didn’t want to give the school of his dreams a transcript when they asked for one (a commonplace request, by the way). Now, if my dream job is to be a studio analyst for CBS Sports and they happen to call and ask for a resume because they’re interested in hiring me, what do I do? I GIVE THEM THE RESUME! It’s silly of him to still be pining to play for the Illini - go have a nice career at Arkansas. By the way, Beverly himself admitted in the same article that he wouldn’t be putting up the same numbers at Illinois because of the level of talent there.

Eric Gordon — the kid flat out lied to Weber about his interest in Indiana…repeatedly! Because he never decommitted, Weber couldn’t entice other shooting guards to come to UI knowing they’d be stuck behind EJ for a year or two.

Derrick Rose — I still maintain that Weber read the writing on the wall when he offered to Demetri McCamey last June (and he committed 3 days later). Rose is a one-and-done and anyone following his recruitment knows the possibly of an NCAA inquiry could be his lasting legacy in Memphis.

Mustapha Farrakhan — would have been a nice consolation prize in the wake of the Rose and Gordon debacles, but in two years you would be complaining that he’s not the kind of blue chip recruit who helps you win championships. Weber and company just can’t win! It’s a Catch-22 — either he guns for the biggest studs or grabs several of the next tier players and tries to coach them up. Either way…the likes of you won’t be happy.

Quinton Watkins - a top 100 recruit who - unlike Gordon - will actually stay 3-4 years and could form a veteran backcourt with McCamey in the future.

C.J. Jackson - burned his redshirt year in 2005-06, which he why he didn’t redshirt this year.

Armon Bassett - Weber admitted after Rose and Gordon that the staff made a mistake on passing on some kids like Bassett, who wasn’t mentioned by name but who wanted badly to go to Illinois before heading to prep school for a year. Robbie Hummel, E’Twaun Moore, Stefhon Hannah are others that come to mind.

Randle Friday night — why not pull him out of the game? Who would replace him and give the Illini an upgrade? The pure shooting of Smith was lost all season. I agree with Weber - you leave him in and hope the spark you’ve preached about all season suddenly lights up.

The Future — maybe I’m an optimist at heart, but I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. If this team was intact all season and played like this, I could understand it. But we know that wasn’t the case. A healthy Illini team easily wins 26 games and likely more and much of this would be moot.

Frazier’s a year older and smarter and has proven that he has the heart of a lion. Pruitt could be the 2nd best center in the Big Ten. Carlwell’s conditioning will be at a collegiate level for the 1st time. McCamey provides an immediate upgrade in the backcourt and Semrau can hopefully gain on the promise he showed last preseason. As for the freshmen, let’s see. Ditto for Randle…he’s an enigma for which I don’t have an answer. He’s our version of the Cubs - wait until next year.

After watching Duke struggle and UConn sit the postseason completely with a plethora of blue chip recruits, I’ll take my chances with Weber and the players he chooses. Just as he held this team together, he’ll continue to succeed with or without your support. Here’s rooting for SG Scott Suggs and SF Darius Miller to come aboard in ‘08…and now that Michigan has fired Tommy Amaker…could stud recruits Alex Legion or Manny Harris be convinced to come south this fall? There’s a scholarship (or two) to be had…and playing time at SG…!

Mike says:
March 17th, 2007 at 4:19 pm

I’m still waiting for “fire Weber” camp to come up with names of non-mid major coaching candidates who would be both be good and interested in the Illinois job.

bart ridings says:
March 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

#47
You are correct. Beverly never submitted a transcript, most likely because it would not have been good enough to get him into Illinois. The school cant offer a scholarship to someone who wont even submit his transcript.
…and yes, I am saying what you think I am saying about Arkansas’ acedemic standards.

I am not willing to sully the academic reputation of the U of I for any athlete.

Now about Guenther. If what Mr. Doyle says is true than I apologize to FRG and DIF right now and I am on your bandwagon. I already had a problem with an AD who wouldnt lift a finger to protect the Chief. If the account of Guenther at this game is true, I have a real big problem with him.

The knee is jerking very hard on Weber here. I do not agree that Coach Weber needs to go. I will say this…..if at this time next year, he is standing on the sidelines at Kentucky, many of you can have some credit for making that happen. I know you would like nothing more than him to leave but what is the alternative? (insert next coaches name here) would have your bullseye on his back in 6 months or less.

Weber has been very good and had good results. Guys, 23 wins when many of you (and you know who you are) were saying no way we win 20 this season. What does that say about a coach that can squeeze 23 wins out of a team like this? His biggest problem (and this is a big one) is that he didnt have one player on that bench who is a leader…. I mean not even the slightest bit of leadership. (and evidently a jerk of an AD in his ear all the time)

So lets keep the knees from jerking here people. The team Weber coaches next year will win 20+ games. I would like that to be the Illini.

ISU UI basketball fan says:
March 17th, 2007 at 4:42 pm

So, did Dee tell Sherron and Julain to go to KU? They should be barred from Ubben, Stadium and the Hall.

BigDave35 says:
March 17th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

I think that one comment can sum up the last 8 minutes of Illinois game with Virginia Tech Friday. TERRIBLE COACHING! What do Weber and his assts. think they are there for?

Joe John says:
March 17th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

Is it true that the Chicago Public League coaches walked out of Brue Weber’s coaching clinic last year bc of Weber’s alleged use of a racial slur in describing former Westinghouse coach Chris Head?

Also, did Ron Guenther really yell “Warren, you idiot” along press row?

Please, clean house.
Now.

Just a terrrrrrrrrible year for Illini athletics. 2 wins in football, off the court incidents in both sports, and the leadership of Guenther/Weber appears to be mindlessly inept.

Fire them all.

miss the chief says:
March 17th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

No more apologies. Weber has to go and take Ron G. with him. We are Purdue of the west (oh sorry they won) and the “great coach” that can’t recruit ran zero plays or used his guards to run clock and an offense. Carter turned it over but why was he getting the ball there.
Let’s see here is what we know
1. he cant recruit
2. he can’t control his kids
3. we are on a death spiral

Hindsight is 20/20 but i asked for Thad Motta instead of him at the time. Let’s get someone who can win.

Jimmy Chitwood says:
March 17th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

I always stick to the old adage that things are never as good or as bad as they seem. I believe this is especially true for Weber.

That being said, I would like ANYONE on this board to dispute this:

I believe we were the LEAST athletic team in the tourney. That is completely unacceptable and points back to recruiting.
Did we have 1 fast break in the entire game? Were there any alley-oops, etc? I watched in person the KU-Niagra game and Niagra had at least 2-3 guys on that team who were more athletic.

I personally don’t care if a player is necessarily a 3-5 star player. What I want are players that can get out on the break, crash the boards, block some shots and can put on a decent press when need be.

That is what was so frustrating about this team. In EVERY category we were sorely lacking.

rjl says:
March 17th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

All the talk of BW a great coach ? a GREAT COACH DOES NOT GO FROM A 1 SEED TO A 12 SEED IN 3 YEARS .You cant compete on the big stage ,when you top recruits come from Peoria ,Riverton .This is the 4th year BW has not gotten a top Chicago player You can get to the sweet 16 every year with just a few Chicago players In the state tourment not once is it stated that one of top the players has commited to Il .If BW makes no change in his staff than we are looking at repl acing Minn /NW at the bottom of the big ten I think Gunther can see the writing on the wall ,with no Chicago players ,and will make the change with the head coach soon RJL

j.k. says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

I am not really sure what the Chicago Public League (some of them) have against Weber. Didn’t Tracy Webster come from a Public League school? That guy, Chris Head, sounds like an idiot.

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/031707/BIL_BCLSPIB0.077.php

C.J.Behrle says:
March 17th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

Duke had trouble holding leads, even with some 5 star players. The TV guys said they had no one to go to.

Never have I seen games get away from us like this year. Hard team to watch. Yet, we win 23 games and have a 5 seed down and almost out.

The last 5 minutes we were as bad as it gets. I do not hear many giving credit for the first 35 minutes.

Recruiting has been poor. we came in second on several players. BW would not take a player who would not send a transcript, and he did what wrong.

What I saw during the year and prove the last 5 minutes Friday was:!) Not very good basketball mind on the team. 2) Lack of a go to player. 3)fear of the FT line. & 5) Several players who did not want the ball and lacked any confidence.

I like our size. The only had 2 (?) inside players in several years.

23 wins is 23 wins. Pust how bad is this ?

If what I hear is correct, then AD needs to go.

We all need to thank God that our jobs donot depend on the same standards you want for BW.
Since Mark can get some of you going on soccer, Let me try this. GO SIU: GO KANSAS: GO UNLV:

ATOIllini says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:10 pm

#56 (Chitwood)…..Yes, this is piling on, but I have to agree totally with your “least athletic team in the tourney” comment. I made the mistake of watching the 2nd half of Louisville/Texas A&M this afternoon. At any point in time all 10 players seemed superior to what we put on the floor. What a heck of a game that was….and to watch that Louisville freshman guard put on a show like that (admittedly coming up short in the last minute), it hurts even worse. We have no one even close to that talent. Why did Duke lose in the 1st round this year? Did Coach K lose his “in game” coaching ability? No! Their talent level is just down….period.
We are in the same boat….just worse.
Two other previous posts I have to address:
1) “worst choke in NCAA history”……my only consolation is how can that be possible when we only gave up a 13 point lead in 8 minutes when 2 years ago we beat Arizona from down 15 in 4 minutes!
2) #40 (Jake)…”at no time has Illinois had a pipeline to the CPL”…I believe you must be too young to remember 1) Efrem Winters…MVP of McDonalds all-star game 2) Ben Wilson…I believe #1 recruit in the country before tragedy 3) Nick Anderson…tremendous Illini player 4) Deon Thomas 5) Jamie Brandon…committed, but grade issues prevented him from coming 6) Marcus Liberty…#1 recruit in the country. Safe to say every one of these would have been a 5 star in this current time….and by the way, all Lou Henson (and Jimmy Collins) recruits.

t taylor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

WE NEED GENE CROSS TO REPLAE TRACY WEBSTER. GOOD RECRUITER AND POSSIBLY COULD BE FUTURE HEAD COACH. LOOK AT THE TALENT HE HAS BROUGHT INTO DEPAUL, VIRGINIA, AND NOW NOTRE DAME. TRACY WEBSTER STINKS FOR REAL!!!

t taylor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

BRING JAMARR BACK HE’S 19 YEARS OLD AND MADE A MISTAKE-HE CAN LEARN FROM. I WAS IN THE MILITARY DRINKING AT THE AGE OF 18 SAME SITUATION, ME AND A FRIEND HAD AN ACCIDENT. I WAS HURT PRETTY BAD BUT I LEARNED FROM MY MISTAKE.

Doug says:
March 17th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

I must say, I really enjoy listening to the ACC network - that’d be CBS - as much as I enjoy reading the ‘fire the most successful Coach in Illini history” posts. (How many of you forget that two years after Maryland won it all, they were in the NIT. It’s not that unusual, guys).

Just finished the UNC/Michigan State game and for most of it, the announcers weren’t even aware who UNC was playing, it seemed. Even when the Spartans were up, they heaped praise on UNC.

And when Duke lost, the color announcer was LITERALLY speechless. Very classy.

And now I’m watching Indiana hang tough with UCLA and the announcers are calling it straight, which is very nice to see.

Anyway I’m looking forward to Oden teaching Harnsborough a lesson.

Jimmy Dee says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:12 pm

#49 L.S.- Quote “Patrick Beverly — the kid didn’t want to give the school of his dreams a transcript when they asked for one (a commonplace request, by the way).”

I agree that if Illinois were truly his “dream school,” providing a transcript woud be a no-brainer. I don’t understand the animosity. If there’s more to it, Beverly needs to get it out. Otherwise, shut up and savor the one NCAA tournament game he’ll get in his career as a Razorback.

#53 BigDave- Quote “I think that one comment can sum up the last 8 minutes of Illinois game with Virginia Tech Friday. TERRIBLE COACHING! What do Weber and his assts. think they are there for?”

Apparently not to handle the ball and shoot free throws, as you seem to think they should be there for. Why don’t we stop blaming the coaches for everything and start accepting the limitations some of our players have? But then I would guess you would start bashing the recruiting of those players. I’ll save you the trouble, then. REVOKE ALL THEIR SCHOLARSHIPS AND LET’S START OVER! How’s that?

#54 Toe Jam- Quote “Is it true that the Chicago Public League coaches walked out of Brue Weber’s coaching clinic last year bc of Weber’s alleged use of a racial slur in describing former Westinghouse coach Chris Head?

Why are you phrasing that in the form of a question? You apparently already have your mind made up on that one. I’d be a little careful about believing any claim by a former CPL coach who can’t hold a job and has an axe to grind. Does your tiny mind honestly think this would be something a man like Bruce Weber would do? Particularly in his position?

#55 miss- Quote “Hindsight is 20/20 but i asked for Thad Motta instead of him at the time.”

Thad Motta? Who’s that? Maybe that’s why when you asked for him, you didn’t get him.

#56 Jimmy- Quote “That is what was so frustrating about this team. In EVERY category we were sorely lacking.”

Really? What does that say about the 23 teams on the losing end of games with us this year?

That’s enough for now. Some of you people really wear me out.

Jimmy Chitwood says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:23 pm

ATOIllini, Dead right on all accounts.

I saw the same game and thought about Chester. Great heart but lacking on talent. He could become very good someday (the 4th year doesn’t do us a lot of good though) BUT until then you have to have someone to pick it up. We had nobody.

I actually think as a coach, there are a TON of coaches worse than Bruce. My proof would be all of them forgetting to full court press the Illini EVERY SINGLE GAME. All you had to do was watch the Maryland game to know that we were helpless against it (again, no athletes).
This team made everything difficult (especially to watch) because that was the best they could do. The talent well was dry.

Also, we have never been adequate enough regarding Chicago area recruiting, but people always forget what you pointed out. Jimmy collins got us those players. Again, we have nobody who is doing this now (but there was a precedent)

p.s. Believe me or not, but I sat 2ft. away from Michael Jordan this past weekend and my lasting memory will be him shaking his head as my beloved Illini were choking that game away.
When superstars, national media, etc are acknowledging our downfall it becomes hard to take and changes need to take place.

Just what those changes can be is the real question.

Brookstaylor says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:41 pm

Joe John, Disgusted, Fire Ron Guenter, etc. Please go away. You are all idiots. Everytime something bad happens, you post the same idiotic comments. I want to fire you guys as fans. Go away. We don’t want you. You’re probably Iowa fans anyways. I’m glad the season is over so I don’t have to listen to your idiotic comments anymore. Go protest on the women’s tennis blog.

Weber got a 23 win season in a down year talent wise. Does anyone remember that we were the underdog in this game? This was not a good team. PERIOD. Weber is a great coach because I don’t see many other coaches getting this much out of this team. Do you think Coach K had a better year? Every team has down years. Shouldn’t we be proud that a down year for us now is 23 wins and an NCAA first round loss. I remember the days when we didn’t make the tourney or we were in the NIT.

And Guenther? Geesh, I was calling Carter much worse names when he kept throwing the ball away and missing freethrows. I don’t tend to believe a blog article written by a guy who obviously knows nothing about our program. Did you read the crap he wrote? Sounded like Joe John in disguise. We should be blasting this guy for slandering our school. 8 years in a row in the NCAA. And we have a terrible program?

I thought this game summed up perfectly how our entire season went. The good thing is that we never have to see McBride, Carter, or Arnold play again. Too bad Randle still has one more year left. I like our class coming in. Watkins, McCamey, Cole, Tisdale. Plus we should have Semerau and Carwell back healthy. This 2008 class will show us if Weber can recruit. How about throwing Weber some support? Think about all of the crap he has had to endure this year. Firing a good coach only makes us worse next year. New coach, new system, and it takes a couple years to get your recruiting connecitons going. Please think before you make a stupid comment. Honestly, do you think getting President Bush out of office will suddenly solve all of our problems? No it won’t

I am disappointed and angry, but life goes on. We finally have a coach who wants to be here and gets 20+ wins every season. An you idiots want to throw him away? That’s more disappointing than losing the game. Go Illini!

One last thing, Beverly wouldn’t send his transcripts to us. He wouldn’t have been on the team this year because he wouldn’t have qualified. It’s alot easier to get into Arkansas. I don’t want a player that we have to worry about staying eligible each semester.

IlliniSteve says:
March 18th, 2007 at 12:08 am

Look at all the genius coaches that lost in the tournament so far. Bobby Knight, coach K, Rick Patino. Ohio State should have been knocked out too but won in overtime. How could they lose with all those blue chippers and hall of fame coaches. I agree Illni need better players but that’s not a guarantee to win every game. As lousy as we played we still should have won the game. Guess I’ll have to root for Kansas or Ohio State. You got to give Weber time to recruit a few classes. I think Carter, McBride and Randle are all Bill Self recruits. Hey it took John Wooden 16 years to finally win NCAA. You guys would have fired him long before that with your high expectations.

Fred S says:
March 18th, 2007 at 12:33 am

As far as BugIllini’s comments about Weber and Self–and their differing people skills—its exactly right from what I’ve seen.

Bill Self just geniuinely likes meeting new people, no matter whom you are. I worked at a sporting good store when Self was the coach at UI, and he’d come in from time to time to pick up things for his house. He drove this really old truck, what he called his ‘work truck’, and picked up his foosball table with. He was as nice as can be to everyone in the store. Just an engaging guy, and never really seemed out of place.

Weber, on the other hand, isnt mean or aloof by any means. But I do think he’s more shy than Self, and doesnt really care to meet new people. Its not something he likes doing.

I think Weber has some antagonistic qualities about him, that lead to him always being at odds with the media, his own players, fans, or something…I’m not going to say he looks for conflict, but I just think his ‘us against the world’ or ‘woe is me’ mentality makes it alot harder for him to engage and be friendly to people.

Some people just have good people skills and enjoy meeting people. Self was one of those guys. I think Lou Henson was as well. Lou was a real charming, geniunely friendly person.

Kruger/Weber both seem to lack that desire to have good people skills. Being outgoing and friendly does count for something, even doing the small things like Bug talked about.

Self’s staff with Norm and Billy G, they were also pretty outgoing people as well. I’m not sure about Weber’s current staff though.

Disgusted Illini Fan says:
March 18th, 2007 at 1:05 am

A few observations…

1- As much as I hate to witness the rapid decline of our basketball program, I am against firing Mr. Weber and hiring a new coach by incompetent Ron Guenther. I’d prefer firing Ron Guenther first, thus allowing a new AD to decide the changes (including, but not limited to changing the current coach) necessary to reverse the ongoing decline of our basketball, and other program. I don’t want the incompetent Guenther to screw-up any of our sport programs any further. Besides, it will just buy more time for this loser of an AD to hang around longer…let’s just get rid of Guenther for good and allow a new AD change everything wrong with our sports. Given our gutless BOT and the timid media, though, that might be a tall order.

2- To those fellow blogers who keep comparing the decline of our basketball program to the decline of Duke and Conn this year…may I remind you that those two schools own no less than five (5) national championships between them…how many NC do we have at IL? None…zero…the point being that successful programs like Duke’s and Conn’s do get a pass from veerybody when they hit a sub-par year. IL is nowhere close to that type of premier status to get any pass from anybody.

3- On the subject of the media being silent on Guenther’s repeated failures at IL…it is quite disturbing. No other major university’s AD could or would have got away with the failures that Ron Guenther has inflicted upon U of I during his stewardship of our sports, and still be around after 15 years. The media would have driven him out of town long time ago. Our media, though, has continued to give this guy a pass day in and day out no matter how much he screws things up. It is reminiscent of the Chicago’s corrupt (though I wouldn’t use that description for our media) media which has allowed the Cubs go more 100 years without a World Series, the Black Hawks without a Stanley Cup for decades and the Bears asembling a Super Bowl caliber team every 22 years!

Mike says:
March 18th, 2007 at 7:49 am

#57 “a GREAT COACH DOES NOT GO FROM A 1 SEED TO A 12 SEED IN 3 YEARS ”

I guess the “fire Calhoun” wagon must be up and rolling at UConn, since they went from a 1-seed (in 2006) to OUT OF THE TOURNAMENT in 1 year.

Still waiting for an answer to “Fire Weber, hire who?”

bart ridings says:
March 18th, 2007 at 8:33 am

BugIllini’s comments:

I have met both coaches in the “camp” situation and both were outgoing and cordial. The big difference I did see was that Self did only that. He would walk around shaking hands and signing stuff and taking pictures. Weber would do that when he wasnt out setting up and running drills or refereeing games for 10 year olds.

The biggest difference I have seen is that Weber is much much more involved of every aspect of the program where Self literally let his assistants run things. Hence the success of Gillespi et al.

These are just my observations. I dont pretend to be an insider at the university but my experience contradicts BugIllini’s.

Jim Nevitt says:
March 18th, 2007 at 8:36 am

If R Guenther did what Doyle accused of,he was wrong! His biggest mistake was that he acted foolishly while sitting on press row. I pounded a table and swore at Illinois’ stupid play and I’ll bet many of you did also. The difference is that I was sitting in my living room and that only my dog and my cat heard and saw me.Guenther would have been better of if he’d been alone so that idiots like Doyle couldn’t see/hear him.
In addition, I would rather have a A D who really cares about the team rather than one who simply draws his salary. Guenther has been a player and coach and is a fan of U of I athletics.
I hope that RG chooses to sit alone the next time.

Jimmy Dee says:
March 18th, 2007 at 10:19 am

#58 Fred S- Interesting analysis in your post. I think you’re exactly right in your comparison of the two coach’s personalities. And I think it’s reflected in their coaching styles. Bill Self can charm a recruit into coming to play for him, but won’t necessarily get the most out of him. Julian Wright is a good example. By all accounts he’s a tremendous natural talent who’s out of place in the Kansas system and not developing to his full potential. He’ll finally realize it in the pro’s, but in the meantime he still appears happy with his college choice.

Bruce Weber can get the most out of a player, help him develop to his fullest potential and his players will still be lukewarm to him as a person. Both styles have their pluses and minuses, and I can honestly say I was and am happy with either.

albie says:
March 18th, 2007 at 10:26 am

To #66 You are delusional. I do not have a problem with you calling people, idiots; “name calling ” and ad hominem attacks are the accepted practice of “good” lawyering in America, and if anyone in America needs a good lawyer to defend his record, it is Ron Guenther. But when you casually say that it serves Iowa fans to be blogging and criticizing the athletic director of Illinois, you have shown how out of touch with logic the Guenther defenders have become. Illinois under Guenther poses no threat to Iowa. Their football program is strong and their basketball program is catching up to us, not because they are making significant steps forward but because it appears that our program may be ever so slightly moving downward. The criticisms of Guenther are real and valid and are not going to go away even if you wish it so. Athletic directors are skilled politicians who fortunately do not have elections and have to run for re-election because if they did have elections the fanaticism and fickleness of fans would never allow them around long enough to do their job. But when our native son Ronny Reagan put a whomping on the the Boy from Plains, he won by asking the very simple rhetorical question, are you better off today than you were four years ago. Pick any number of years and ask that question of Ron Guenther’s tenure. We need to return to those glory years of the seventies when it was the norm not to have the D1 basketball team in the state, but we could at least win one against the lowly Northwestern and then hang our hat on at least having the best D1 football team in the state. You are defending a guy who cannot oversee the building and sustaining of a powerhouse within his own state, let alone one on the national stage. Go ahead son, call me some names, you and your boy Guenther are up a unsanitary tributary without any means of locomotion, whether you know it or not.

theprofessor says:
March 18th, 2007 at 10:43 am

ATO Illini

Henson finished his tenure at Illinois with an overall record of 423 wins and 224 losses (.654 winning percentage), and with a record of 214 wins and 164 losses (.567) in Big Ten Conference games.

It Coach Henson and Jimmy Collins had a pipeline to Chicagoland blue chip prep players, one would think the Illini record during this era might have abeen a little stronger???????

ken riggs says:
March 18th, 2007 at 11:17 am

#49—my sentiments precisely. #20 “Firing Weber isn’t going to solve the problem..”….As noted, we were missing Smith, Carlwell, and Semrau along with a string of injuries and an earlier suspension to McBride. I have to believe that at least one of those guys could have given us a lift against VT. #22 Given the aforementioned as a backdrop, what bench was Weber left with to go to vs. VT? He had Arnold, Meacham, and Brock. Meacham is a bit limited to guard a guy like Gordon who blew by him. Plus, he is not a guy who can light it up on offense.
For those of you attacking Weber and his staff, they aren’t the ones executing the offense. I know from having coached and talked to many coaches that you can tell them over and over and they go out on the court and go brain dead. We also tend to make mistakes, like a lot of teams do, down the stretch when fatigue sets in. Carter, for the first time in his career, was a starter and he just flat out was a non-factor late in games. He has a lean body type and his weakness is apparent in crunch time. McBride is asked to play both offense and defense and is gassed by game’s end. These are our two key seniors and offensive weapons outside of Pruitt. The problem is that we don’t have the bench strength to give them much needed rest and then when we ask them to give in the last few minutes on offense the tank is empty.
I am hoping that with the infusion of depth and a healthy team that we will have better success next year. Also, some of the guys like Brock and Frazier will have gained some valuable experience and react better in game situations next year. Remember this was Frazier’s first year as a starter and Brock finally got to play some minutes and actually started a few games so it is almost like his rookie year. Randle has to develop better and get his head on straight. This is the worry for me. Pruitt should be All Big Ten. The balance of the team is up in the air with what the newcomers, Smith and Semrau, Carlwell, etc. bring to the team. At any rate, competition will sort this out.

jolietjake says:
March 18th, 2007 at 11:34 am

I’ve been an Illini fan for 58 years, the school has never really concidered a black as head coach and now someone accuses coach Webber of racist remarks and you bury your head in the sand and say he will overcome it.the media will never forget this one, also gunther wanted a coach that was loyal and thats the problem with recruiting Webber hired Keads assistant coaches as a favor to him ,Purdue was at the bottom of the standings these guys have made sirious mistakes not inviteing Sheron Collins to midnight madness is a huge one.

j.k. says:
March 18th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

Personally, I think Weber is a great coach and learned well under Gene Keady the nuances of game management. Like Keady, his recruits are not top tier and he needs to recognize that those recruiting tactics are not well suited in this time and age, and therefore he needs to make adjustments and if that meant promising a player like Derrick Rose playing time as a freshman, so be it. That would have been a given anyway, considering his talent. The top tier player is looking to move on after 1 or 2 years, therefore they want to showcase their talent early. Weber needs to ask himself whether he wants these type players or only the middle tier player who will stay 4 years.

Mike says:
March 18th, 2007 at 12:53 pm

Tup, Good Sunday article. We as fans are upset, but we also need to step back and look at the big picture. Think of Michigan and Coach Amaker, then step back and look at Coach Weber. At least we’ve been going to the dance and I still believe “Slick Willie” Self can recruit, but wouldn’t have been able to get that team to the title game.

I didn’t give this year’s group much chance to do anything when the season began, then they real in 23 “W’s” even with all of the injuries and immature antics going on. We know Bruce can coach, but he needs to show he can land some blue chip recruits, but I don’t want to see him cross to the dark side like other coaches.

As for Mr. Gunter, if he did act in the manner we were told of, then he needs to publicly apologize to the kids and Coach Weber for acting the fool. If recruiting isn’t tough enough no kid wants to come to the U of I to be publicly degraded on national television by the AD no less. Also, if Mr. Gunter wants to coach, then coach. Coach Weber doesn’t need to be told by you or anyone else when and how to do his job.

Disgusted Illini Fan says:
March 18th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

#66 above …you have given a new meaning to the phrase “blind loyalty” with your idiotic statement and goofy support of incompetent Guenther…or is it that you are just too dense of a “Homer” and Gunther apologist to see the forest for the trees.

Let me say this very slowly…what part of “Guenther has been a complete failure and a total disaster of an AD at the U of I” do you not understand? I was about to nail you and your dumb (really dumb) statement about the Iowa wanting Guenther fired when I saw someone else with common sense has already done that (albie #74 above), and more. Don’t you realize that other Big Ten ADs would kill to make sure that IL would keep this loser Guenther around? He has completely destroyed our beloved university’s sport status not only in the Big Ten, but as the “flagship school” in the state of Illinois—again read albie’s #74 posting above on this issue as well and, more imortantly, try to think (as difficult as it might be for you) while you read it…and let us know what part of that argument about the U of I’s decline within the state of IL do you not understand.

The problem with you and other Guenther’s apologists on this blog is that you folks are totaly void of debate skills, thus you constantly revert back to your wrong headed emotions and blind loyalties to and unfounded and silly statements (like the goofy one you posted above about Iowa) about a loser that has taken suckers like you for a long ride and destroyed all our sport programs in the process.

Guenther’s apologists like you might be better off to just shut-up and not say anything at all because the more you stir this bowl of sweage (Guenthers tenure at IL), the more it stinks the joint.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

It’s nice to see all of you scum-scucking, low-life, stone-throwing haters coming out to kick Coach Weber and the program after a loss.

I GUARANTEE that NONE of you would have shown your putrid faces had Illinois won…just like you didn’t show up after we made the tourney.

You are all pathetic, asinine, knew-jerk, know-nothing, whining morons. Go back to rooting for Notre Dame Whoops! They lost! Or for Indiana. Whoops! They lost! Duke? Lost!
How about Syracuse, Connecticut, Iowa, Michigan, Oklahoma, Oklahoma Stae, Wic hita State, Bradley? Whoops! Didn’t make the tournament!

Okay, then just go back under the slimy rock you crawled out of, and don’t forget to wipe up your smegma trail.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

Hey albie,

I’m glad you’re so nostalgic for the glory of days of Illini football and basketball in the 70’s? Don’t know what you were smoking back then, but it obviously affected your perception. Out football teams sucked back then….with Bob Blackmun the Coach and us getting rolled over by OSU and Michigan to the tune of 60-3 and 56-7. And we weren’t beating NW…we tied them in the fall of ‘78, 0 - 0.

And our BB teams weren’t much better. Harv Schmidt and Gene Bartow were the coaches, and Nick Withspoon was our elite player.

just thought you would like to know reality….

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

Earth to Ned R. - #31 Patrick Beverly isn’t at Illinois because he wouldn’t send us he transcripts. Hard to offer a schoalie if you haven’t seen someone’s transcripts….unless you’re SIU or Ohio State, of course.

Also, if you believe everything that Greg Doyle and JAy Marriotti write, then contact me off-line….I have some beautiful beachfront property in Iraq I would like to sell you.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 2:04 pm

Hey Don jerkhead - #35 Have you not heard of Dimietri McCarney?!?

Might wan’t to learn your facts before you send your 5-year old to post for you……..

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 2:14 pm

Hey rjl - #57…..

Syracuse went from winning the NCAA’s in 2003 to not being invited this year.

And your response would be????????

Illini Fan too! says:
March 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

You folks need to get a grip. Bruce Weber managed to get 23 wins out of the team this year when most people thought they’d be lucky to win 20. The guy has one down season and you’re ready to throw him to the wolves? I love hearing about Illini’s winning tradition in basketball and how Bruce has been a disgrace to Illinois basketball. Please! I can remember in the not too distance past hearing the cry, “we’re through with lou!” Fans like you are never happy and can never be satisfied regardless of who the coach is. Do you get paid for being an arm chair coach?
Bruce Weber is a great guy and a great coach. He deserves more than what you supposed “Illini fans are dishing out.

Jeff Brody says:
March 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

I found this comment in your Sunday column interesting:
“C.J. Jackson, who will be a redshirt sophomore, needs to decide whether he intends to put forth the effort to play here, or if he’d prefer to play somewhere else.”
Can you expand on that a little. Is Jackson lazy, or unwilling to work in practices? I’ve been amazed at how little he’s gotten into games, even meaningless games; and must take that to indicate that he has not exactly won a lot of favor from the coaching staff with his practice habits.

Jim Nevitt says:
March 18th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

I wonder if Weber stayed/went back to Columbus to watch SIU.I wouldn’t blame him if he did since he is best friends with the SIU coach and recruited many of the players on SIU.(Whoops,I forgot, Weber can’t recruit. Think how good SIU would be if the had a coach who could recruit!

albie says:
March 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

To#82 That is my point, we were not very good, but we at least we could say we had the best D1 in football if we could be Northwestern. The Illini have neither the best D1 in the state in BB or FB. And if anyone knows Mr. Guenther personally, could they ask when at least state bragging rights for either BB or FB might be reclaimed. In the seventies as pathetic as the program might have been, as I said earlier at least an alumnus had something to hang his on if we could only be Northwestern. Today our football program could not beat NW or NIU, and it is evident the BB team could not beat SIU. Another year of Guenther, and we could be the D1 patsy for the entire state.

illiwis says:
March 18th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

On Bruce’s coaching show, C.J. talked a little too much about how he doesn’t want to hurt anybody by his size. He may not have his head on straight in some areas. Also, Patrick Beverly was the freshman of the year in his conference,(SEC). If Illinois passed him by, then you really have to wonder if there is any hope.

SIU- Sweet 16; UofI- 1 and done says:
March 18th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

Does anyone still want to argue about who would win a game between SIU and UofI?

Disgusted Illini Fan says:
March 18th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

Algonquin Bill #81, 82, 83, 84, 85 above…what happened…was your fax machine broken or something? You had to wait 3 days to get your marching orders and “talking points” from Guenther’s office before you could open your mouth and give us the same ol garbage in defense of this guy.

Do you even understand these postings when you read them…or do they just go way over your head. You jump all over albie’s posting without even understanding the point he was trying to make in his #74 posting, which he has made again at #89 above…do you understand it now? Do you understand that under Guenther’s regim, U of I is no longer the top dog school in football and basketball (and women’s basketball, too) in the state of Illinois? Can you just stick with this one issue and tell us if you understand what is being said here…or do you need to consult with Guenther’s office for an answer?

Sorry that we have to treat you like a 5 year old, pal, but you leave us no choice. For example, your statement about Syracuse is worthless because the fact that you ignore is that Syracuse has a National Championship in basketball under its belt…where is ours? In short, they’ve been there and they’ve done that…but we, under this loser Guenther, are still trying to punch our way out of the paper bag just to get our first national championship in any one of these two sports in the 140 year history of our beloved university…if you don’t think that’s a disgrace, then you are the one who has been living under a rock all these years.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

Illweis - #90….. Do you read any of the other posts before you type. Or do you just scroll down to the bottom and post so you can quickly see your name in print? It has been WELL documented here by myself and others TODAY ALONE….not to mention other times….that Beverly wouldn’t turn in his academic transcripts, and thus we couldn’t offer him a scholie. That is why we passed him by….because unlike EVERY other school in the SEC, Big 12, Big East, MVC, WAC, and most in the Big Ten, we have academic standards.

Do you think Arkansas insisted on seeing his (marginal) academic records before they signed him up?!?!

If so, I have a condo in the Free Republic of Cuba to sell you……..

Algonquin Bill says:
March 18th, 2007 at 10:49 pm

albie - #89 I’m sorry, but I have higher standards than simply beating NW in football and SIU in Basketball. Since the glory days of ’70s football, we have been to multiple bowl games and set the record for Big Ten wins in a football season…which will likely never be broken due to the unbalanced schedule.

And since the glory days of Harv Schmidt, Illinois has won 6 Big Ten BB titles and been to 2 final fours.

I DO understand your point, but just because SIU is on the rise now, and our football team had some bad years, I am simply not worried. Sports are very fluid, and except for notable exceptions, teams “take turns” going thru high and low periods.

As long as the most important thing….Illinois’ academics….don’t go thru highs and lows, we are very well off.

Brookstaylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:07 am

#81 Algonquin Bill- Couldn’t agree with you more. I think you and I are the only ones on here with common sense. Everyone else just likes to post negative things when the program is down.
First, Disgusted, you are a moron. I have been calling you out for months to give us some facts about the “evil” Guenther. The only valid thing you have said is the downfall of the women’s program. And who really cares about that? Debating with you is like debating with a three year old kid. You have the same lame answer every time. Why don’t you try “I know you are, but what am I?”

Albie- You should run off and marry Disgusted. You said “you and your boy Guenther are up a unsanitary tributary without any means of locomotion, whether you know it or not”
What the heck does that even mean? Stop reading the dictionary. Just because you can read a three syllable word doesn’t mean that you can use it in a sentence. Who wants to go back to the glory years of the 70’s? How about 2 years ago when we were in the title game? Guenther hired Self, who recruited those players, and he hired Webe who coached them to the final game. Yet Guenther is ruining our program? Loser.

And one last thing to both of you idiots. I said that you guys are probably Iowa fans because of your moronic comments about Guenther and our school. You could be Iowa, Indiana, etc. fans. Try reading, it’s a skill. Learn it. The 05 Illinois bandwaggon is over with. It’s time to jump off and go somewhere else. Guenther has done a good job and he isn’t going anywhere.

One last thing. #91 SIU- Wow, your team finally had one year where they did better then the Illini. It’s about as impressive as the last time the Cubs one a World Series. I’ll root for SIU to win because they are a state school. Come back and brag after your school can do it for more than one, single year. Beat Kansas next weekend and I am sure that Alfie and Disgusted will become fans. Better find out who your AD is. They are coming after them.
Go Illini!

C.J.Behrle says:
March 19th, 2007 at 5:05 am

People ilke #80 Disgusted Illini Fan uses words like:1)Blind loyalty
2)Idiotic statement
3)Goofy support
4)Incompetent Guenthere
5)too dense of a “Homer”
6)Guenter apologist
all in one sentence. He does not stop and continues:7)Guenter complete failure
Total disaster of a AD
9)Guenter completely destroyed
10)For us readers, Try to think(as difficult as it might be for you)
11)Guenter’s apologists are totaly void of debate skils… you constantly revert back to your
12)Wrong headed emotions and
13)Blind loyalties
14)Losers that taken suckers like you for a long ride and destroyed all our sports program.

I do not need debate skills against comments like the above. There is nothing to debate when people only name call and ….

Just one final point. Guenter hired ( I believe) three basketball coaches as AD. All 3 went to the big dance. Two are in the sweet 16.
I’m the same person who said that maybe Guenther show go if some on the reports I have been hearing are true.

Winston Smith of Joliet says:
March 19th, 2007 at 7:50 am

Thank you, Marcus Arnold, for your contributions to Illinois basketball. At least you never got arrested and didn’t embarass the program. RPIC Editor Boy can agree with me on this.

As for Guenther’s behavior, he should be fired. As if the awful performance of the football program under his leadership wasn’t enough of a reason to can him……

DJField says:
March 19th, 2007 at 8:24 am

The final indignity is that Bruce Pearl is in the Sweet 16.

Michael Conlon says:
March 19th, 2007 at 8:44 am

19 turnovers, and 8 of 15 from the free throw line. How we were even within 2 points is a testament to defense. We need some shooters and a point guard.

Satchmo says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:23 am

Everyone calm down. The Illini had a very good season of basketball played at a not-so-pretty style. My only complaint with the current squad is that they never smiled and NEVER seemed to enjoy the games. Bruce Weber did the same thing, everyone needs to relax and remember that this game is FUN to play. Dee Brown was NOT the world’s greatest basketball player (as the NBA is now proving), but enjoyed playing the game more than anyone I had ever watched. The smile made him a Illini legend, not those wild drives down the lane. As far as the collapse against VTU, doesn’t anyone remember that AZ collapsed against IL on a bigger stage? Things happen, IL did not do anything more wrong against VTU than they did right against AZ. Times change, fortunes change. Take the wonderful stroke of luck provided by AZ and remember it fondly. Taste the bitter lemon of VTU and then look fondly to next year. I will be shocked if next year’s squad is not competing for the B-10 title and another NCAA bid. I would love to see a return to 2004-level B-Ball, but Bill Self wouldn’t have gotten that performance from those players. What happened to the loyalty-factor? All of the Bruce-bashers out there should remember the pain and nausea associated with the Bill Self & Lon Kruger “take the money and run” eras. I absolutely do not want to return to renting the coach of the week every 2.5 years. Everyone just relax, you too Bruce. Go to the beach for 3-4 weeks and come back and work like a dog (as usual) and show these bastards what we’ve got. GO ILLINI.

Xavier McDaniel says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:37 am

Algonquin and Brooksy, I love it when you guys get worked up.

BAM may be a good guy and a decent coach but recruiting is a part of his gig isn’t it? If he doesn’t do that well–shows over!! He hasn’t done a good job and those are facts.

You can’t get too testy when it was a fact that this team was frustrating and about as un-athletic as they come. They stacked up a few Wins (+ 20) but so did a record number of teams this year.

To get peeved because people are down on the program is ridiculous. We lost some hope for next year when we lost our recruiting future, couldn’t close out many a game and saved our biggest choke job for the national stage.

Could times be much worse? Heck yes!!
However, as an ode to Disgusted, I want to see a team BUILT FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP. They can’t win them all,but let’s try to get 1 first!!!

Bob Wells says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:56 am

What a bunch of spoiled brats exist at this blog!

According to the logic dispensed here, you can come up with a Hall-of-Shame list of coaches that need to be fired because their schools lost in the first- or second-round of the NCAA tournament. Coach K, Coach Izzo, Pitino, Mark Few, Stan Heath - they’re all a bunch of losers, and fire the AD’s that hired them! Wisconsin lost to the Krugers! Washington State lost!! Maryland lost to Butler! Stanford and Trent Johnson underachieved to an 18-12 record, then lost. Even a VA Tech team that won AT UNC and AT Duke, lost to SIU - and guess what coach might be the hottest property these days? Coach Jim Boeheim or Steve Alford didn’t even make the tourney - can ‘em all!

All Coach Weber did was recruit athletes that won 6 Big Ten championships at Purdue, remain loyal to Coach Keady, and then left a “full cupboard” at Carbondale. His team only won 23 games this year - get rid of him!

Bring in Kevin Stallings! Bring back Lon Kruger! I hear Tommy Amaker, the most recent savior of former-national-champ Michigan is available. How about Alford? Dan Monson left Gonzaga to bring Minnesota back from dead. Bob Huggins did wonders with the junk left behind at KS State - image how he will do with his own recruits. How about that Billy Gillespie!?! The passage of time has made everyone forget about his own DUI. Maybe there’s hope for Jamar Smith yet (I suggest you read Mike Nadel’s column from last week, and then pass judgment on Jamar.)

One of the key problems in this state is that difficult bunch of Chicago Public League coaches, all standing around with their hands out and complaining about getting no respect from the state university. No different than during the Henson - Kruger - Self eras. Now, Self is at Kansas, and the athletes are flocking there. Get that part of the state figured out, and you never would hear about the Eric Gordon’s of the world.

For those who recommend a look in the mirror, I suggest you take your own advice first. You all live in an all-too-perfect world. C’mon, folks - get a life!

rsillini says:
March 19th, 2007 at 10:37 am

FRG, DIF, Rock, X Man or anyone else who wants Guenther, Weber, Zook or whoever gone, here is how you do it. It’s real easy. Just donate $10 million to the Athletic Assoc. for new facilities. Put the caveat on your donation(s) that Guenther has to go. You’ll get rid of who you want, probably get input on their replacements and heck they may even name something after you (my wife’s ex-boss donated $10 million to the University of Florida Law School and it is now the Fredrick G. Levin School of Law). Anyone who regularly reads this blog knows how serious you take Illinois athletics and what it means to you. So come on guys pony up. Lead us out of this waste land and in to your promise land!

Noblesville Larry says:
March 19th, 2007 at 10:38 am

It was a relief to end a dsyfunctinal year, played by a dysfunctional team, with a dysfunctinal game. A big part of any sport is fundamentals. This team could not perform a fundamental - shooting a freethrow. Have we no one who can coach free throw shooting technique? Apparently sufficient emphasis was not placed on practicing freethrows during this long season. How many additional games would we have won if we’d hit just 70% of our freethrows? I see brighter things for next season in football and basketball - but we still need to work on those freethrows. I’m an alum fron the 1960’s, but I know I can beat most of the Illini team in a freethrow competition - and I only have a hoop outside and limited opportunites to practice. Hey, maybe we can get together 5 of us “old fogies” and we can challange the team to a “best of 50″ contest?

Rosco says:
March 19th, 2007 at 10:59 am

Read the blog all the time, but first time posting.

Like art, realistic expectations are obviously in the eye/mind of the beholder.

Recruiting: A little research will shed some light on recent complaints/misses. Beverley, would not send transcripts. Gordon, lied for months and kept us from signing other recruits. Rose, follow the $$$$ to Reggie. Scheyer, always wanted to play for Duke. Collins, steered away by HS coach.

Mariotti/Doyel: Reminds me of the blind leading the blind. They get paid to stir the pot and boy are there alot of Illini bloggers in their respective kettles.

Weber: Great coach, great guy, average recruiter who is learning from recent disappointments of being lied to and lied about. I just laugh at those who give CAlhoun, Boeheim, et al a pass because they have a NC. If Weber had won a NC, you would be screaming much louder (if that is possible) for not maintaining the level of success. Many coaches have much higher rated recruits and have done much less with them, i.e. Self, coach K, Barnes, etc.

Motivation/FT’s: I always am amused by those who say a players lack of sucess is because the coach did not “motivate” them. Motivation is creating an environment for the player to be successful. Every player is different, but has to decide for themselves if they want to do what the coach is asking, teaching, demanding. Deron and Dee finally “decided” to buy into what Weber was teaching but it was their “choice” and not a lack of “motivation” from Weber.

Unfortunately, not many players decided to drink when lead to the water this year. That was the players’ “choice”. Was it bad coaching or player choice that threw crosscourt passes when unguarded. Use this example for most of the unforced turnovers late in the game. At some point motivation and change has to come from an internal source not external. When recruiting HS players it is sometimes impossible to determine what will happen when they get in college, Hence the unrecruited jewels and McD busts ( Duke).

I look forward to the next and following years of continued realistic success with Weber leading the charge

Bill Arter says:
March 19th, 2007 at 11:42 am

Wow, a person goes out of town for the weekend & the sky starts falling(according to some people). I was disappointed also that we lost, but we almost won a game that we weren’t supposed to & life goes on. Since people all year have been saying that we have no talent, perhaps we were lucky to have a late double-digit lead & things just evened out at the end. Having a lead late in a game does not guarantee victory. At some point, you have to give credit to the opposing team for taking something away from us instead of saying the outcome of the game was based entirely on what we did or did not do. If VT had started to press at the 10 min. mark, we may have lost by 10 points. Would that have made some of you less angry? If we had come from 10 down to lose by 2, would that make some of you less angry?

It is always good to hear from all of the same voices of reason on this blog & soooo predictable to hear from the doom & gloomers when the Illini lose.

23-12 in a down year….I’ll take that anytime. Good coaching job by BW this year. Looking forward to next year.

Illini4 says:
March 19th, 2007 at 11:50 am

One thing that makes me uncomfortable with Weber’s coaching is his insistence on running up and down the sidelines screaming at the players during the entire game. Is there so little preparation during practices that instructions have to be constantly conveyed to the players in real time? Add that to all the other valid reasons to dump Weber. I’m tired of his marginal performance, players that behave like criminals off the court, and now an AD who’s behavior is embarrassing as well. It’s time to clean house.

Marlin - Ann Arbor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

#10 Professor - If you argued that Ill was playing one of its best games until the last 8 minutes, you, sir, would be a total bonehead. Illinois didn’t beat a single favorite all year - including Va tech. I don’t know about Guenther’s behavior (see post #4), but maybe FRG and DIF have a point.

Either way, if it is not apparent to all who post here that Coach Weber is in way over his head at this level, both in terms of coaching and in terms of recruiting, then you are either blind or stupid or both. No one argues the quality of the man, but when you are a national runner-up, and you can’t put a single blue chipper in your program over the next three years, THERE IS A PROBLEM! When you have at least 5-6 players in trouble outside your program and non of those players are asked to leave, THERE IS A PROBLEM! When the players decide who sits on the bench rather than the coach, THERE IS A PROBLEM! When the same players make the same mistakes in the last game of a 30-game season as they did in the first game, THERE IS A PROBLEM! Wake up, Illiniland. Another season like this one and we won’t even make the NIT. We might not be able to make bail for enough players to field a team! A very thorough house-cleaning is in order.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:12 pm

D I F - #92 Sorry I couldn’t respond to your rant earlier. I was having breakfast with A D Guenther…I had the pecan pancakes, he had eggs benedict. : )

He didn’t give me my marching orders, as you suggest, but he did pass something else on:

He wasn’t sitting within 10 feet of Greg Doyle, the liar/protagonist/sportswriter wanna-be from CBS. So all of you who are upset by Greg’s column….there you have it.

As for the remainder of your post, DIF, I didn’t know whether to yawn or laugh. In none of my 5 posts did I mention or defend Ron Guenther. As I tell you often, reading is a skill. Maybe you should have your 3 year-old son stop writing your posts for you. Or better yet, maybe he should START writing them….they would make more sense.

My emphasis on those 5 posts was to defend Coach Weber from the scurrilous, reckless, and unwarranted attacks by knee-jerk “fans” who enjoy kicking a man when he is down.

There is no point in trying to defend Ron Guenther in regards to the Chief…since any able-minded U of I graduate realizes that the Chief decision was a trustee decision…not an A D decision. For what it’s worth, we do agree that it was a bad decision to buckle to the PC crowd and the NCAA. It just wasn’t in Guenther’s court.

I realize that won’t stop you from hating RG and from blaming him for everthing from cold stadium hot dogs to poor free throw shooting to the flop of Sandra Bullock’s latest movie.

But at least try to lay off of BAM. 20 years from now you people will realize how fortunate we are to have him as our coach.

Marlin - Ann Arbor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:21 pm

#16 - First of all “Big Jack”, Self and Krueger would not have had THESE players. And the last time I checked Self and Krueger are still in the tournament. We know he (Weber)can coach? I counted 4 times in the last 5 minutes that an Illinois player found himself in the air with nowhere to go with the ball. That, my friend, is fundamental basketball. Never jump into the air unless you know what you are going to do. This team displayed a horrible lack of fundamentals all year - and that is a function of coaching.

Face it, the man can’t recruit, he can’t coach, he can’t discipline, and he can’t win at this level with HIS KIDS. It’s time to change partners.

Another season of this and there will be no more sellouts at Assembly Hall, there will be a significant drop in donations, and overall support will dry up like the Sahara.

And for those of you who would question my “crystal ball” on this, any idiot who has spent time around a major collegiate sports program knows the consequence of losing. It goes beyond winning percentages, personal feelings, pure loyalty or friendship. It is big business and the bottom line.

Xavier McDaniel says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

Didn’t someone once say, “if you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten”?

If we don’t get better more athletic players, better recruits, more money for the program/facilities, a new AD perhaps, new assistant coaches, etc. I don’t see anything changing.

20 Win seasons are nice if that is your goal. Is that your goal Homers??? Seriously, from reading these rants I would say that 20 wins, 3rd place in the Big Ten and an occasional Sweet Sixteen appearance is your lifes ambition.

Don’t get mad at us folks who want to field a team that has a chance ALMOST every year of doing some real “Dammage”.

Being in something to Win it really isn’t too much to ask, is it Homers?

Shane M says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

Okay time for my 2 cents! When I started reading all these messages on saturday i must admit i was on the fire Webber bandwagon. After reading all this non sense and looking at things past and present rationally I came to these conclusions about Webber.

80% winning percentage over 4years
2 Big Ten Championships
4 NCAA Tourney Appearances
1 Sweet Sixteen
1 Runner Up
Loyal to the school. May stick around for more than 3 years.
And if not for some terribly bias officiating we would have at least had a sweet sixteen last year and a National Championship in 05.

And you want this guy fired! I would hope that maybe like me everyone who posted that opinion was highly upset after a heartbreaking loss and yes a terrible coaching performance but have now come to their senses. I think we all better write Bruce a personal apology and thank him for the great job he has done here at Illinois before he bolts for greener pastures and a fan base that is a little more forgiving and appreciative.

I think overall Bruce did a good job this season with what he had to work with. I feel he knew there was no way this team was going to run his offense the way it is supposed to be run so he focused on defense. There was a whole lot of adversity this year and for this team to win 23 games and finish 4th in the Big Ten was quite an accomplishment.

Is all perfect for the future? Of course not! The smartest thing Bruce can do is hire an assistant with strong ties to the Chicago Public League and hope that he can start recruiting out of there. I think next year things look good. Chester will be able to run the offense better and hopefully will keep improving on his shooting which he did tremndously this year.
Let me refresh your memories a little Deron Williams as a Freshman and Sophomore was not a very good shooter and neither was Luther Head. If you remeber Deron and Dee’s sophomore season we were a very defensive team and not a big threat offensively. The next year they all came back with a deadly jump shot and that is what made that team go. Not too meantion a much better understanding of BW’s offense.
I just pray that all of this criticism doesn’t send Bruce packing for KY next year!

albie says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

To #94 Algonquin Bill I plead guilty to not being the FAN that many on this blog are. I have a couple of degrees from the U of I and Illinois is a national power in academics and that is a lot more important to me than the athletics. I have never called for Weber to be fired, he is a good coach and it would not be deserved. Guenther is another matter. If he were an elected office holder, he would not be reelected. If he were running a Fortune 500 company, the stockholders and board of directors would show him the door. This is a question about the overall state of the athletic program. Illinois is just too fine an academic institution to accept what the future of this program has in store under more years of Guenther. The tipping point has been reached, and from now on, any blog devoted to a discussion of Illinois athletics will have only one elephant on the board so to speak, and that will be how much longer will Guenther be around.

S.D. Runnin Red says:
March 19th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

Ive seen the Illini choke before and or did not live up to the hype in both B-ball and football but I survived and looked forward to next year.What is gnawing at us all is recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.Zook is showing some promise that is giving me hope, that is all I can ask. With Weber I have to wonder if he can access talent, Frazer, Jackson and Brock come to mind or he has to settle for what he can get. Man I sure hope thats not the case. Weber has proven that he can coach mediocre talent and great first round draft pick type talent. But with the recruiting so far I might as well be a Minnesota fan. Bruce throw me a bone, give me some “HOPE”.

Buffalowing says:
March 19th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

I’m hearing so much about Weber’s recruiting skills, mostly negative, that I started to believe the canard that he can’t recruit. Do any of the naysayers remeber that he DID recruit Gordon, and he won’t be coming here only because of the enormous pressure put on him by Sampson and all the IU fans. BTW, has anybody else the suspicion that Sampson told Gordon to lie to Weber about his commitment until the very last moment in order to prevent him from recruiting a replacement?? Sampson certainly is sleazy enough to do it.

Marlin - Ann Arbor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

Jake #40- Only someone with your inane ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory could be happy about the Illinois loss (at lease we didn’t lose to SIU or Self). You should be REALLY your job doesn’t depend on me, pal. With your lack of vision, you wouldn’t last 5 minutes in my organization. Frankly, you are an embarrassment to the Illinois degree.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Marlin - #110 and #111…. I have always cut you more slack than some of the other meathead posters on this blog, but your 2 rants today proves you are cut from the same cloth. Intelligent men can debate Coach Weber’s recruiting ability and what actions he should take in regards to discipline. But you crossed the line, Marlin, when you flat out say BAM can’t coach, and you put yourself on the same (low) level as DIF, FRG, Rock, Joe John, among others.

Let’s address purely the coaching…since you distinguished that from the recruiting in your 2 toddler rants. I HAVE been around collegiate atheletic programs. You claim to…but it gives me doubt with your comments. Mistakes that players make on the court are all attributable to bad coaching!?! Get off it. Players make mistakes…they don’t think and they try to make impossible passes. They get tired and don’t move their feet and then foul. They choke and miss free throws. What part of that is coaching?!?

And if that is your logic, what is the excuse at the pro level? Is it bad coaching when NBA players make mistakes?? Pro players should know their fundamentals by now. How about those dozens of TD passes the Lion’s cornerbacks gave up last year? Bad coaching?

Let me pour some salt in your wounds and talk about all the boneheaded errors the Detroit Tigers made against my beloved Cardinals in the World Series. Per you logic, Jim Leyland is a terrible manager, ’cause those are fundamentals! Or could it be that players are humans and they make mistakes…regardless if the great Adoph Rupp or Dean Smith were coaching?!?

You want to talk about coaching? How come Duke got bounced from the first round with all their hamburger AAs?? And don’t give me any tired crap about us not having blue chippers. You claim BAM is a “horrible” coach. Back it up…and tell me why Coach K is nearly Canonized as a great coach, while losing with all that talent???

If you put the great Roy Williams, Coach K, Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim…any of them….in the situation that BAM faced at Illinois this year, they would have choked up a big hairball and puked all over themselves in anxiety.

BAM’s winning percentage at Illinois, as well as his building of the program at SIU, speaks for itself. The last time anyone heard of SIU before BAM became coach was when Walt Frazier was wearing tight shorts.

And next time you come out to play, bring your facts………

Jimmy Dee says:
March 19th, 2007 at 2:44 pm

#111 Xavier- Quote “Don’t get mad at us folks who want to field a team that has a chance ALMOST every year of doing some real “Dammage”.”

That’s fine, but exactly how are you accomplishing that by spewing negativism on a web blog. Let’s face it. All any of you program bashers are doing is venting to make yourself feel better, although I fail to see how that could have its intended effect. I think more than likely all it does is make you a sad, bitter person who will always be inclined to see the worst in life.

Contrast that with those inclined to offer support and encouragement on this site. Unlike you, I think we can actually impact the state of the program for the better. We offer support and encouragement for players (including potential future ones) and coaches and can cast a positive light on the program and its fan base. Don’t get me wrong; I’m all for free speech. Just don’t try and pass your kind off as being somehow beneficial to the University of Illinois athletic program.

Rosco says:
March 19th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

Sorry Buffaloing, but it was Eric Gordon’s father and EJ lying to Weber’s face for months. Sampson just took advantage. If Mike Davis had not been fired, Gordon would still be coming to Illinois.

Xavier McDaniel says:
March 19th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

Runnin Red - you are 100% correct.

Buffalo, not to pick on you but your sentiments are ones the apologists use to much on here.
As far as I know, close is only good in horsehoes and hand grenades.
Once and for all people, did BAM “LAND” Gordon? How about Rose, Beverly, etc.? As far as I know “close” don’t count.
Does anyone else remember we ALMOST landed Shaq?? Illinois was #2 on his list as well BUT that didn’t help us much did it.

Also, quit crying about the lack of support from Chicago. As far as I know Self has players on his team now from all over. Besides Chicago, one of his starters is from Alaska. The only way BAM is ever getting to Alaska to recruit is if he combines it with a Anniversary sea cruise.

Facts are that a “TRUE” program pulls guys from ALL OVER. Not just in-state walk-ons, etc.

Rosco says:
March 19th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

X McD #120

Please be so kind as to list all of the “TRUE” programs in your opinion, followed by your definition of what a “TRUE” program should accomplish on and off the court and how often. Peace brother.

Rod Damery says:
March 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

Leadership!!! Not the coach, but on the floor leadership. Having watched the Illini from afar this season, it appears the most glaring weakness this team suffered from was having no on the floor leader. We have been spoiled in recent years by having great on the floor leaders such as Dee and Deron. This years team suffered because no real leader stood up and took charge when things weren’t going good in individual games.

Hopefully, Brain Randle or someone will take charge next year and really step up. Otherwise, we may be having the same discussions next March. But, I don’t blame Bruce Weber or his coaching staff. Most programs go through cycles and after all, the Illini gutted out over 20 wins again and we were in the Final Four just two years ago!!

The sports talk shows here in North Carolina are roasting Duke and Coach K since their early departure. Many hard core Duke fans are saying Coach K has lost it and dosen’t recruit the right type of players and predicting that program is on a downward spiral. I despise Duke, but I can guarantee you that Coach K will have that program back with a vengence next year. Hopefully, the Illini will use this year as a learning experience and be back strong next year too!

Thanks again Mark for you outstanding coverage of Illini basketball!! Long live the Chief!!

Bob says:
March 19th, 2007 at 4:50 pm

I really do not see any excuse for Illini having a bad season this year. And you certainly cannot blame it on a lack of talent. Look at their starting roster:
Shaun Pruitt- 4-star rivals, 4-star scout
Warren Carter- 3-star rivals, 4-star scout
Brian Randle- 4-star rivals, 4-star scout
Rich McBride- 4-star rivals, 4-star scout
Chester Frazier- 2-star rivals, 3-star scout
Jamar Smith- 3-star rivals, 3-star scout
Calvin Brock- 3-star rivals, 4-star scout
Trent Meacham- 3-star rivals, 3-star scout

Look at SIU’s roster:
Randall Falker- NR rivals, 2-star scout
Matt Shaw- NR rivals, 3-star scout
Jamaal Tatum- NR rivals, 2-star scout
Tony Young- NR rivals, NL scout
Bryan Mullins- 3-star rivals, 3-star scout
Wesley Clemmons- NR rivals, NL scout
Tyrone Green- NR rivals, NL scout
Tony Boyle- NL rivals, 2-star scout

I’m sure many can argue that there have been injuries and suspensions all year. All I’m saying is that Illinois has a bunch of 4-star players and barely got into the tournament. SIU has some 2-star players and are in the Sweet 16. SIU has less money and less “talent” but are getting better production. Anyone care to comment why?

ill says:
March 19th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

im ready for some illini football!.. but in the meantime how about MHS girls soccer?

BrooksTaylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

#105-Rosco- Keep posting. Nice to have another blogger who has some common sense.

#109 Algonquin Bill- Amen. Keep preaching the gospel. Hopefully DIF, FRG, and the other Illinois bashers will open their eyes and realize the Weber and Guenther are not the problem.

#111-Xavier. Call me a homer, or whatever you want. Am I satisfied with this year. No! Am I happy that a bad year for us now is 23 wins and a first round NCAA loss, Yes!. I remember the days of not making the tourney and going to the NIT. I am proud that our program has been to the tourney 8 years in a row.

If you look at this year, with the lack of talent, injuries, losing Semerau/Carlwell & Smith, and the whole Chief debacle, the fact that we got 23 wins is amazing. It shows you just how good Weber is as a coach. I agree. Recruiting has to improve. This Class of 08 will tell alot about Weber’s future. Just tired of hearing you and all the other haters bash the program. I think we have a great class coming in next year. Plus, Semerau and Carlwell will be ready to go again. Throw in Pruitt,Calvin, Chester and even Trent getting better. I like our chances. The one question mark is Randle. He oculd be a Top 5 player if he quits worrying about getting hurt and just plays up to his abilities.

Everyone……..stop with the Guenther crap. Let it go or go somewhere else. He’s done a good job. If you can’t stand him, go somewhere else because he is not going anywhere. Quit listening to the Mariotti’s and Olney’s of the world. They can’t write anything good so they have to write “shock” columns now.
Go Illini!

BrooksTaylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

Just curious, does anyone know how many Chicago League kids have been on National Championship teams over the last 15 years?

Everyone says that we have to recruit the Chicago public leagues to win championships. If that’s true, then where are the stats to back it up?

Bill Arter says:
March 19th, 2007 at 6:01 pm

Well said Algon. Bill(117) & Jimmy Dee(118).

t taylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

Love bloggers, everyone has an opinion and that’s what matters. I work hard for my money and like a few priveldges allowed by my wife. Illinois basketball is one of them and as a season ticket holder and a 4-year subscription holder to ESPN’s full court, I’m allowed to watch over 25 games a week on my satellite dish. I’m not going to kill Weber he was the same coach we had 2 yrs. ago in ST. Louis playing for all the marbles. He could recruit better but who couldn’t look at Duke, Arizona, UCONN, and LSU. The firstt eams went out in the first round and the ither two teams did not get to sniff the NIT. Coach Weber doesn’t need elite recruits but he needs recruits that fit his system. The system of ball movemenet and one guy who can break defenders down ala D-WILL#5. Hey I’ve got several tapes on Q-Watkins from a friend in LA he can flat score. I only have one question what is Tracy Webster’s role.

t taylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

Brooks u crazy, he’s an administrator nuff said.

Fire Ron Guenther says:
March 19th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

BrooksTaylor, how can Guenther not be the problem? What part of 64-106-2 do you fail to grasp????

illini gator says:
March 19th, 2007 at 7:01 pm

Hey marlin ,I enjoy going to games and what you say is true maybe I can get a good seat to a college game. People its college basketball and these are kids who are supposed to be there for the education, not basketball. We as fans have almost ruined the true meaning of college basketball. The game doesn’t belong to the rich alumni or the crazy fan who didn’t even attent the university, it belongs to the players and students. Every game you see the orange crush going wild cheering and believing in their team. We don’t see them booing or making bad remarks aimed at the team. I’m sure Bruce Weber doesn’t sit on his rear and say well I should’nt recruit that kid, he lives in Alaska or Africa. From what I have heard he’s out recruiting and busting his rear end for the top recruit. I see in Rivals how many players have Illinois as one of their top 3 picks. I can remember back when we were happy to get a 3 star pick. Let me see, North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, Florida or Illinois. First, I would find the school for me. A school who has a strong field in my major, Tradition, national tv appearences, Strong conference rating, weather, who my teamates are going to be, big name coach, who gets a lot of tv time and graduation rate. Where does Illinois out rank these programs in being able to recruit these McDonalds all americans. In the big ten you have Indiana, michigan State and now Ohio State that seem to be getting all the attention from ESPN and CBS does this help Illinois recruiting. Illinois does not a great tredition in most sports, other than wrestling and tennis. where does Illinois athletic program stand in tradition or winning national championships. the lack of tradition has been here a lot longer the Guether has been here. I see where the new recruits like Illinois and wanted to be part of the school, I believe these kids are what college sports should be about. Kids that like the program. So get off these kids back and support them.

Jimmy Chitwood says:
March 19th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

I don’t know enough about our AD to say thumbs up or down about him.
I do know that pre-Weber, he had a couple of very good hires in Krueger and Self. If memory serves, he took on the Chicago public and spurned collins to jump after Krueger. It was bad luck (Krueger having dreams of the NBA) and Self (a perfect storm in Kansas-his dream job) that we ever lost guys.
On the negative side I don’t think he pushed enought to pay up when Self was leaving Or to in turn land a more high profile coach. Indiana pulled out all the stops and cash to get Sampson. The domino effect for them was thy got Gordon and I would be surprised if Inidana wasn’t back near the top of the rankings very soon.

When we had our most important moment, we couldn’t pull the trigger and we HAD to hire our 3rd or 4th choice (at least publically acknowledged). Heck, even after Bruce surprised us and took us to the Final, RG still didn’t want to pay him.

I guess the summary of my rambling is that we have to decide if we are in this to Win or not. Is Bruce the man? If so, pay him and kick in more to get the best assistants, etc.
If not, keep doing what we are doing (and get much of the same mixed results).

Lynn says:
March 19th, 2007 at 8:12 pm

You know I never liked the taste of crow, but after predicting an Illini win over VT…there is always next year…pass the hot sauce, please.

Algonquin Bill says:
March 19th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

Jimmy Chitwood…#132 (I always liked your moniker) Anyway, if I’m not mistaken, Self had just gotten a new contract (extension?) when he made his decision to leave. As has been well-documented, Self’s dream job was Kansas. We could’ve given him 1 million a year and he still would have wanted Kansas.

As for Indiana and Sampson, he saw the writing on the wall at Oklahoma. If he hadn’t left, he would have gotten fired. His act was running thin. I can think of 100 coaches on the mid-major level I would choose over Sampson.

Jim Nevitt says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:32 pm

I wonder if a lot of the posters that are griping at BW and RG are former members of the “faction” a group of so called St.Louis cardinal fans who demanded that Tony LaRussa and Walt Jocketty be fired for not winning the World Series. When the Cards went to the series twice and won it once the faction broke up and moved on. It looks like some of them became Illini “fans” and they’re still griping.
Hey,faction, when can we expect to see a banner over the assembly demanding a house cleaning?

D.J. from Florida says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

Thank God it’s over. Watching Illinois play this year was like having a root canal done without novacaine. It was torture. It just wasn’t any fun at all. No joy.

Frank says:
March 19th, 2007 at 9:50 pm

Ironic as heck that Self, Krueger and Pearl all won on the same day to get to the Sweet 16.

george morris says:
March 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

these guys played hard for Weber; however, they are dumb and ignorant basketball players; they have no basketball instinct and they can’t shoot field goals or free throws; I think all the coaches know that but there is nothing to gain by telling them the truth.

Jessica says:
March 19th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

So, if anyone reads this far (and I’m chagrined to admit that I did), my house was full of SIU alums on Sunday. To a person, after the game was won, they said they’d take Weber back in a heartbeat. You’d a thought Coach Chris had done a bad job!
Good point, whoever it was who listed the SIU players and their “star” ratings.
Life will be better on the basketball court. It wasn’t all that bad this year.
GO ILLINI!

Brookstaylor says:
March 19th, 2007 at 11:50 pm

#130-FRG- Can you say anything else besides that lame stat? Guenther has made good hires with our football program. The only problem is that they have all under achieved. Now we finally have a football coach. Now that he is getting his players in here, watch the football program turn around. Zook and Weber are going to be great coaches and both were hired by Guenther.

You are probably the same person who blames Guenther for the Chief when in fact it was the Board of Trustees decision. The only negative thing you have said about Guenther that is correct is about the women’s basketball program. I agree. Grentz needs to go. But then again, who really cares about women’s basketball. Go Illini!

Fred says:
March 20th, 2007 at 12:22 am

Brooks Taylor strikes me as a cheerleader type of fan that really doesnt care how well team does. Same for Algonquin Bill. Some of the others defending Weber on here are bandwagon Illini fans, most likely SIU fans that love Weber for some unknown reason.

Others want the team to win big, and after 4 years of seeing the type of style/players Bruce Weber has brought in, they want to make the change.

My problem with Weber is 3 things:

#1. Our style of play is horrible to watch. It reminds me of Wisconsin when Bennett was coaching. Jack up 3’s, run the shot clock down, take the air out of the ball…Its not entertaining.

2. Discipline on the team. Obviously the players dont respect Weber enough to follow the law.

3. The recruiting sucks.

And Guenther, honestly get rid of him. He’s part of the good old boy network, and he has attained his position NOT by what he’s done, but by whom he has KNOWN…Its time for him to be shown the door. Every other business would have ax’ed him 3 years ago after the Ron Turner debacle.

The new AD should either be a pure business guy, or a pure sports guy. I dont want some glorified ‘fundraiser’ like Ron Guenther.

I wish some of the fans on here that are accepting of Guenther/Weber would show some pride in the program and expect more from it. Accepting a substandard product does nothing but enable those in charge to keep doing business as usual.

And yes, I consider barely making the NCAA’s, and a 2-win football season, to be substandard.

How does Florida (a school that Illinois is superior to in almost every discipline) get blessed with a Jeremy Foley, and Illinois gets a Ron Guenther..?

Bill Arter says:
March 20th, 2007 at 7:12 am

Illini4 (107) I think you’ll find that every coach yells instructions to his players during the game, so complaining that you don’t like it when Weber does it makes no sense. It’s a part of the game.

Jim Nevitt says:
March 20th, 2007 at 8:19 am

Enough! It’s time for a new blog!!

Winston Smith of Joliet says:
March 20th, 2007 at 8:48 am

Wow, when I agree with a Jay Mariotti article, the world has stopped revolving. Ron Guenther must go. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/304285,CST-SPT-jay20.article

Doug says:
March 20th, 2007 at 8:52 am

“fire Weber,” “Fire Gunther.” Yes, we get it. You guys want them fired. Ok. Can you come up with a new thought now?

rsillini says:
March 20th, 2007 at 9:26 am

Well its 8:00 AM MST on Tuesday March 20 and after checking the Official Illini site there has been no announcement that anyone has donated $10 million yet. After reading the X Man’s comment (#111) I though he had finally got it and was sure he had stepped up, but alas no. Come on X Man, FRG, DIF, Rock, Marlin (and anyone else wanting to fire any or all of the athletic staff) enough talk already, quit wasting your time and obvious talents trying to convert the “Homers” to your point of view. It’s time to take serious action! If you feel $10 million is too much at least donate $1 million. We await yout leadership.

Rosco says:
March 20th, 2007 at 10:25 am

I wonder how many of the “The players don’t respect Weber because they don’t do what he says” crowd are parents. So, it begs the question, have you as a parent every had your child do anything against what you told them to do? Does that mean they don’t respect you? Should you then be fired as a parent? Afterall, a parent has much more direct control over a child’s actions than a coach in college.

Or, have you ever disobeyed a parent? Why, out of disrespect?

Ever not done everything a coach has asked? Conditioning, hustle, rules, curfew, etc. Because of disrespect?

Do I condone…..no. But neither do I have all the information and choose to wait to give an informed opinion. Heck, I still make mistakes, and I am will to wager so does everyone on this blog. Ours are just more private.

Xavier McDaniel says:
March 20th, 2007 at 10:32 am

Jimmy Dee - Any your love and support is helping? I compare you and yours to parents who never discipline your kids. You give them more rope and more rope and then look back years later and wonder what went wrong.
Folks like me on here are just saying that we are not real excited about getting worse when it took us so long to get better.
How much more rope do you want to give this program? Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and you have to speak up to see any real change anymore.

ROSCO- Sorry it took me a while to get back to you. Sometimes work gets in the way.
Quite simply (maybe too simply) a “TRUE Program” is one that recruits nationally and PUTS ITSELF IN A POSITION to be VERY Competitive EVERY year. I would get into further details but I am sure Tupp is going to flip this any moment.
Basically, N.C, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona (now Florida) come to mind first. You could add a whole bunch more to the list and we are way down on it.
True Programs aren’t happy with 20 Wins - as only a record 105 schools reached that mark this year.
True Programs don’t come out of a national championship run by recruiting players that are not even nationally ranked (Jamar and Chester).
True Programs don’t continue that free-fall by being “out-recruited” by more than half the other teams in their conference.
True Programs don’t let the best players in their state get away.
True Programs don’t accept 15 year gaps between Final Four appearances.

People, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t be up there with the other TRUE PROGRAMS. WE have the fans, the recruiting resources etc. What we need to do is find the formula that works. Find that right coach, find that right player that starts the snowball of success rolling. Never stop searching.

p.s. In case you haven’t heard yet, another of Selfs assistants has been hired for the Illinois State job. If he can recruit even close to Bill, the Illini are in trouble as SIU, Depaul and now possibly ISU are closing in around them.

Cobden Appleknocker says:
March 20th, 2007 at 11:12 am

#144 - Winston, you have got to be kidding?? All Mariotti and the other Chicago sports writers want to do is bash our State University - why ? I have no idea, they must be alums of some other school, too bad they have been given such a big stage in which to try and influence people. Mariotti is a pompous jack ass, and if you believe one word of his article then you my man are too. He’ll jump on our band wagon when we are on top as in two years ago, but he’ll kick us when we’re down - can you name any other big time schools he goes out of his way to pick on ?

BrooksTaylor says:
March 20th, 2007 at 11:13 am

#141-Fred- I have been an Illinois fan since I was a little kid and I graduated from Illinois in 96. To say I don’t care about the team is ridiculos.How can yo usay that we have not been successful over the last 4 years with Weber? We were a couple of James Augustine foul calls away from winning it all with Weber. We have gone deep in the tournament every year, but this year. And we aren’t successful? You act like we have a long tradition of national championships. Hmmm…. don’t remember Henson, Krueger, or Self leading us to glory.

Face the facts. This was a down year. It happens. Why can’t you guys give Weber any credit? This is not an overly talented team. Plus, you lost three regulars (Smith, Carlwell, and Semerau) and how many games did Frazier, Randle, etc. miss? We should have been a .500 overall team. Why don’t you jump on the Dukie blogs and blast Coach K. All those MCD’s players and he was one and out.

#1) The system works, but you have to have the right players. The motion will run better with Watkins and McCamey. Dee/Deron/Luther flourished under this system.

2) I don’t expect Smith back, but you can’t kick him off the team until all of the facts come out. It was a no brainer with the two football players. Caught with stolen goods, good bye. This type of stuff happens at every major institution. Unfortunately, Illinois isn’t as good at covering things up as other schools do. You can’t babysit these kids 24/7. This type of stuff is going to happen.

3) Recruiting. Please don’t tell me you continue to blame Weber for Gordon, Rose, Scheyer, etc. This 08 class will tell us alot about Weber. If he doesn’t recruit well this year, I will gladly back you up on this fact. I honestly don’t care if we get the best player in the state each year. I want guys who will do well in our system. Period.

I don’t want to be a school like Florida. I’d rather us be a clean program. You call me a homer, yet you guys jump on this blog and write “fire Weber, fire Guenther” everytime something bad happens with the program. When you fire someone, it takes your program 2-3 years to recover. I want success now. Guenther hired to great coaches in Zook and Weber. When we win our first national championships with Weber/Zook and Guenther still as AD, you’ll still be on here saying your same moronic statements like the others. Aside from the state of the women’s basketball program, tell me one sport that is not doing better now than when it was when Guenther first started.

Honestly, I don’t know how much truth there is to the Foley story about Guenther. But I can tell you this, I was calling Carter and Randle much worse names when they were throwing the ball away and missing freethrows. I’m glad our AD is passionate about our program. He cares and that means he will give Weber what ever he needs to succeed. All of you critics are hypocrites, with Foley and Mariotti leading the way. You all act like you have never said anything bad about someone else. I can think of much worse names than idiot. Heck, I call DIF, FRG, Joe John, etc. that every day. And I am sure they call me much worse names too after reading my rants. It’s sad when you let the media tell you how to think. Firing Weber or Guenther won’t solve anything, it will just set us back farther. If you truly want us to win a championship, then support these guys and the school. It’s bad enough hearing the ILL DUI chants from other schools, even worse when our “fans” say much worse. Go Illini!

Buffalowing says:
March 20th, 2007 at 11:32 am

I’ve been over to the IllinoisLoyalty weblog, and it really imperssed me with three things. 1) People don’t SHOUT at one another; 2) there is no name-calling; and 3) if they are critical of a player or the coach, they do it respectively and not abusively. That’s not to say that there aren’t any arguements, and that there aren’t the anti-Weber/anti-Guenther partisans, but they seem to treat each other with respect. They bring good reasoning to their positions, and they bring lots of positive sentiment to the blog. I’m sure hoping that the bloggers here might take a hint from them, and cool down the rhetoric a little. Remember, all potential recruits and their parents are reading these threads, and it can’t help the recruiting situation if they see some bloggers being abusively critical of players and coaches.

BTW, this from Jimmybras at IllinoisLoyalty

Wow, tough crowd!! IMO I do believe that everthing runs in cycles, you need only look to nature to confirm. I don’t know if Bruce Weber is the man to coach the Illini but based on historical records he has out-performed the 2 previous coaches.
97-00 Lon Kruger 4 yrs 81-48 .630 3 of 4 yrs in NCAA tourney all 2nd Rd exits
01-03 Bill Self 3 yrs 78-24 .760 3 of 3 yrs in NCAA, and declining exits each year from Elite 8, Sweet 16 to 2nd Rd
04-?? Bruce Weber 4 yrs 112-29 .790 4 of 4 yrs in NCAA, going from Sweet 16, National runner-up, 2nd Rd, and 1st Rd

Any comments on this analysis. I know that I was underimpressed by Self’s ability to get his team motivated in the NCAAs. I know that this year appears to be different, but at Illiniois, and previously at Kansas, his teams underperformed in the tourney.

Rosco says:
March 20th, 2007 at 11:51 am

X McD #148

I appreciate your response. It sounds like the major itch you have to scratch concerning “True” programs is recruiting.

I went back through 1985 and will add these to your list based on two or more final fours. I’m assuming a Final Four result outweighs the recruiting pararmeters you set forth, plus I don’t have the resources to check recruits back that far.

Georgia Tech, Oklahoma, Marquette, Maryland, Minnesota, Syracuse, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan State, UConn, Louisville and Michigan. (Ooops, Illinois is in that crowd)

According to your definition, there are only 18 “True” programs out of more than 300 Div I schools. (Leaving out Illinois)

Looking at who is on….and off this list makes one wonder what a “True” program is and is not.

National recruits: Frazier, Carter, Jackson, Semrau

I share your enthusiastic desire to be the best we can be. I am a little more tolerant….even using your own definition of “True” program. We are right there.

Peace Brother

KevinC says:
March 20th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

I agree whole-heartedly with #22’s comments on the delays that are used at the end of a game. Taking the air out of the ball puts tremendous pressure on a team to do everything right and also ups the pressure on them to make difficult shots with the shot clock running down. Other than that. I think Weber does an excellent job of coaching.

Dr Ray says:
March 20th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

I still think this was an amazing year when you consider:
The ‘top 2 players and leaders’ Brian Randle - had major surgery just 3+ months ago!!
And Jamar had 2 ankle sprains before his other problem.
That can not just be ‘dismissed’ as nothing.

I give a lot of Kudo’s to Warren Carter. He stepped up after the game and said it was my fault because of the bad passes. How many others would try to blame others? He is a stand up kid, and I am glad he has been an Illini.

And on recruiting: I remember during one of the coach’s shows that Mark and Tim Cain do with the basketball coach in the fall before the season - Bill Self was giving a general description of recruiting: he said it starts very early - many times in 7-8th grade, and certainly freshman and sophomore. He said by the time they are juniors if you don’t have your hooks in them pretty solid, then you are really behind the 8 ball.

So if you believe what he says about recruiting- you can see why he got Wright and Collins, and why he has built relationships at Illinois that have served him well now that he is at Kansas.

And as Mark alluded to in either a Blog or radio spot (check the mp3) that the Chicago coaches don’t like the way Weber recruits….

I would like a follow up on ‘what do you mean by that?’ it does not help when the ‘media’ do not perform due diligence and print outright lies about so called racial slurs Coach has spoken.

But it’s only basketball- a game, and I hope some of the fans can appreciate that and be patient.

Coach Weber knows how to build a “program” and not just a team. Don’t believe me? Then why has SIU-C done so well even though he has left, and gone through 2 other coaches in that time? Because Bruce knows how to build a program.

Sometimes patience is too overlooked commodity in today’s sports vernacular.
And that is what I miss.
fwiw

Xavier McDaniel says:
March 20th, 2007 at 1:24 pm

Rosco, I appreciate the way you question me as well as what I am saying.
I think the definiton of this blog is that its “all relative”. What is important or looks good to one is not to another.

If you broke the 18 or so down further, you would probably get a handful that go no more than 4-5 years without a trip to the Final Four. That to me is where we should be. This is not an unreasonable goal. Maybe saying we are a top 20 program is the goal for many but I don’t think that’s much to brag about.

Also, when it comes to National recruiting,I am talking about pulling GREAT players from those areas. I know you have to start somewhere but if you are going to Maryland you have to do better than getting a guy (Chester) who was at his highest a 3-star recruit and will ONLY provide any value at all his 4th (or maybe 3rd) season. Again, that’s the best you could do after nearly winning the whole thing? That’s all the buzz our tourney run created.

KSIllini in KC says:
March 20th, 2007 at 7:15 pm

I cannot believe the pass you folks are giving to Weber for this disasterous season and the many more we have coming. The excuses just come from every direction. Oh, how the mighty have fallen, right along with our standards!

Gerry T says:
March 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pm

Guenther should have retired long ago. Its time–even before the rant at Columbus, his handling of football over the last 15 years and women’s basketball are atrocious. Criticizing him does not mean we are anti-Illinois, just that we feel a great university should be much more productive than it has been under his leadership.

 

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