I think I’ll live to see pigs fly and the Cubs win the World Series before I’ll ever see Illinois beat Michigan at Memorial Stadium.
Ain’t gonna happen.
Oh, it might. But if Illinois can’t beat Michigan on a night when the Wolverines’ Mike Hart, the nation’s leading rusher, sits out in sweat pants, and on a night when veteran QB Chad Henne is running back and forth from the field to the locker room to the sidelines with injury issues, when might it ever happen?
Illinois had a ton of chances Saturday night, finally losing 27-17 because of penalties (10 for 107 yards), dropped passes, a costly roughing the punter call, a killer muffed punt and the fact that it has virtually no passing game.
To be honest, the fact that Illinois is 5-3 and so one-dimensional on offense is probably quite a tribute. Seriously. That’s pretty amazing. But it also makes you dial down expectations for the rest of the season. Illinois will still get into a bowl game and that’s an accomplishment for a program that hasn’t even sniffed around one since 2001. But I’ve given up hope that the offense will suddenly develop a downfield passing game and I’ve also given up trying to figure out what the exact plan is at the quarterback position.
Juice Williams can sometimes hit a wide open receiver. But he can’t keep track of three guys running different routes, he can’t move through a progression of his passing options and it looks as though he can’t anticipate how movements in the secondary will unfold. You can tell by the play-calling that the coaches understand this, giving him mostly short, high-percentage swing passes to lean on. And that makes sense. Don’t force things that he can’t do.
On Saturday, Williams did find Jacob Willis for a 26-yard touchdown pass when Willis broke into the open. That was good. And he made a nice 23-yard run from the option that helped set up Daniel Dufrene’s TD run.
Other than that, the passing offense was very one-sided, with Michigan’s Henne piling up 159 yards passing in the first half to Williams’ 50. And Henne sat out an entire series due to injury.
Eddie McGee got the QB call mid-way through the third quarter and I felt he ignited both the offense and the crowd. No question he needs a lot of work and polish. He needs playing time but can’t get it in the first half, when there’s less pressure and when he might benefit from some early exposure.
McGee was in there for two series, then Williams returned and there were definitely some boos from fans who didn’t like the switch back. Then McGee returned, then Williams.
I don’t expect there to be dramatic changes, but I think McGee is both the better passer and runner. Maybe he’s not as experienced and maybe he’s not all he should be as a leader. I can’t say. But if there’s any hope to expand the offense this season, McGee is the answer, not Williams.
Instead of anguish about this, I think it’s best to be resigned to the fact that Illinois will continue to be the most one-dimensional offense in the Big Ten. It’s not that offensive coordinator Mike Locksley doesn’t want to throw the ball. It’s that he can’t.
Like I said, 5-3 with an offense that really can’t throw the ball is still pretty good. Not good enough to beat Michigan in Memorial Stadium, but that may never happen. It sure seems that way.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:47 am
Team discipline or lacke thereof…both the IA and the MI losses were not really losses per se, but give aways…and that only happens when a team lacks discipline. How can a team make so many mistakes at the crucial times and against key opponents two weeks in a row? First it was the winning TD in the IA game that was called back and then the MI game with one mistake after another during the entire game. aren’t they supposed to correct these during the practice?
Although most of these flops are by the special team (which, by itself, is truly the weak link of this IL team and who’s quick improvement must now be coach Zook’s top priority), the lack of discipline runs across the entire team. You just can’t make that many mistakes and beat a good team like MI….not even a bad team like IA.
I love what coach Zook has done to turn our previously miserable football program around, and I don’t think any other coach could or would have been able to do any betetr. That said, the criticism always leveled against him (and particularly by the Gators fans in Florida) is the lack of discipline by his teams. While we have seen some signs of this during the last couple of losses, let’s just hope he’ll prove his detractors wrong by cutting back on these costly mistakes as this young team matures.
October 21st, 2007 at 2:49 am
Go BLUE! Held the ILLINI to ONE offensive touchdown. ILLINOIS WHO?
October 21st, 2007 at 4:27 am
It looks like the 2005 & 2006 Illini are back. Stupid penalties and horrible special teams. I thought this team was supposed to be above that. The defense has regressed, Vonte is not very good. I am tired of hearing about how good a corner he is. Yes, he can make a play occasionally and I did enjoy his kick return, but he cannot cover a decent receiver. This is very discouraging. If Illinois can’t beat Michigan without Hart then the rest of the season is going to be ugly. Once again the play calling on offense was bad. Why does Illinois continue to blitz on third down (esp. 3rd & long)? Every time they blitz it leaves recievers open for the big play.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:47 am
Tupp, you make all these good points about McGee vs. Williams and then you say “it’s best to be resigned” to Illinois being one-dimensional. Follow your own logic, and call for McGee to start. Yes, there are kinks that need to be worked out in his game, but McGee, unlike Williams, offers the possibility of escape from one-dimensionality.
I may be wrong, but it seemed to me that Zook’s coaching “system” encourages more passion from players than self-discipline, and that’s partly why we saw a lot of mental mistakes out there last night by the Illini: trying too hard to block punts, tackling people before they catch the ball on punts, hitting people while out of bounds, facemask penalties, etc. Will Zook provide the mental discipline this young team desperately needs?
October 21st, 2007 at 7:06 am
I have to agree with you. I seriously doubt that we will ever beat Michigan.
And, yet… you know… if Hudson had fielded that punt they would have been in position to win that game.
I had to drink several glasses of wine after that one.
October 21st, 2007 at 7:50 am
Reality check… we lost (and continue to lose in situations such as this) because we don’t have the athletes across the board or the leadership to confidently put them down. Yet. Until we get a QB we won’t get over the hump, obviously. But those personal foul penalties killed us. And that muffed punt… the Michigan defender just stood in front of Hudson daring him to catch the ball. It was embarrassing to watch. I can’t recall seeing anything that bad in quite a while.
We’re getting there. But as many people noted after the PSU game, we’re not going to be able to make these sorts of mistakes against a confident and resourceful team and win.
I hope Zook can instill some discipline in his defense, recruit a top-notch secondary (Hicks was just hideous last night) and get a real punter. You can tell that he and Locksley want to pass the ball, which would amp up our offense considerably. They just don’t have anyone who can do it.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:14 am
Tupps,
I was thinking the same thing, in the stands, with time running out in this one. When will I ever see Illinois beat Michigan here? Why do I still want to go to this game? I am not a cub fan but I’m starting to know how they feel.
=
I remember right after the Wisconsin win, Coach Zook was being interviewed and one of the first things he said was, “we still have work to do”. What we saw Saturday is what he was talking about. I think we will get there. The talent is there but we are not there yet. I am VERY thankful that we are good enough to be in that game and to once again fill Memorial Stadium to its maximum capacity. (BTW - again - student section - you guys were fantastic!)
=
Do I have much higher expectations for this team? Yes. I belIeve the big wins will come more frequently, but we just arent there yet. Lets get to A bowl this year and then improve to THE bowl next year and beyond.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:35 am
I agree Tupp. McGee is the better passer and runner. Maybe not the better option QB at this time but with more experience he will be. I say let McGee start this week and play the whole game against a lesser opponent and see what happens.
October 21st, 2007 at 9:21 am
It’s a shame that we couldn’t find a passing game because receivers were wide open ALL night long. Michigan’s D really is not very good. I kept hearing about how much trouble defending in space they had and then we run inside hand-offs all night??
I think we are all seeing now why the Gators fans ripped Zook so much. The play calling minus the first TD was abysmal. He obviously has NO idea what to do about the QB situation. Maybe it was me but I couldn’t understand why he brought Juice back in late in the game when we needed to drive the length of the field. Then Eddie and then back to Juice. It was mind boggling.
Did anyone else catch all the times that Michigan was holding us? Did the refs call a hold all night on anybody?
I guess it is natural to be a bit pessimistic this a.m. but I have the feeling that we have seen what a Zook team will always be about. We were the team that lacked composure, did not execute and basically underachieved.
I have a feeling that 2-3 years from now we will all be saying the same thing.
October 21st, 2007 at 10:27 am
I don’t believe the offense was at fault for this loss. We gave the ball back at least 4 times when Michgan would of had to punt the ball. This is what scares me about Zook ball. Sometimes he makes the oddest decisions like Kyle Husdon returning punts…he isn’t the right person to do that. At least not yet. Also, switching the quarterbacks isnt productive. I would go with Eddie at this point and see what he can do with the passing game. Run the option only when teams stop keying on it. Also, there needs to be some more discipline on special teams and secondary coverage. Vontae had a bad bad night…it was contageous.
October 21st, 2007 at 11:05 am
Come on Tupp, you need to call a spade a spade. Don’t sugarcoat or minimize our shortcomings and you need to point out Kyle Hudson by name. If we’re going to be honest, here are some things we need to admit are problems. 1) This alternating quarter back situation needs to stop. By playing both what we are saying is either both of these guys are really good and we can’t decide which one to play, or we are saying neither guy is a complete QB and we’re platooning based on the situation and hoping for the best. If it’s the latter, neither will develop into a complete QB if we keep platooning. 2) I’ve been saying for a while now that Kyle Hudson is not the answer as a punt returner. He has been shaky all year. He lets too many punts hit the ground and he gets a lot of east/west return yards but not many north/south yards. His killer muff against Michigan should be the straw that broken the camel’s back. I know that no one wants to say anything bad about the local boys, but Kyle needs to be replaced. 3) Reopen the punting competition. We can’t get through one game without at least one badly shanked punt and the ones that aren’t shanked are average at best. 4) Stop all the stupid penalties. Both coaches and players need to be held accountable and need to get it fixed. 5) Zook needs to be held accountable for his coaching decisions. Last week with the penalties he accepted on third downs and not inserting McGee early in the second half. And this week calling for a punt block (and subsequently roughing the kicker) when we would have had the ball a mid field with three and a half minutes left to work with, and then the quarter back flip flopping at the end of the game. IMO we were out coached the last two weeks. Iowa had a better game plan that we did not counter and Carr worked around the absence of his best player and the recurring injuries to his quarter back.
This post my come off as negative, but it is not meant to be. All I’m saying is let’s admit we still have issues. We are vastly improved, but we’re not Michigan yet. Many of us were angry and/or disappointed by last night’s loss and that’s a good thing. Why? Because that anger and/or disappointment is coming from our new found expectation of winning. That’s an expectation many of us haven’t had in quite some time when it comes to football. Let’s finish strong and go bowling.
October 21st, 2007 at 11:14 am
Very frustrating game to watch! For the second straight game the Illini played stupid and blew chances to win. You can’t keep giving teams 2nd chances. Makes you wonder how much of it is the players fault, and how much falls back on the coaching?
October 21st, 2007 at 11:35 am
I’m guessing my thoughts are like everyone else’s. What was that I just saw?
Kudos’ to all who have been railing against Kyle Hudson. Not only the muffed punt (ultimate choke, did anyone else hear an early whistle?) But the first quarter punt he let roll to the five. Massive field position blunder! The roughing play was horrific. That guy nearly did it the punt before.
The play calling was atrocious! The play action pass for the first TD was brilliant and long overdue. And maybe we will see one again sometime next year! Teams generally run alot to set up play action pass, NOT THE ILLINI!
Summations:
1. Zook had better start using the hammer of playing time on these guys. Personal fouls on third and 25 gets your arse on the bench. I love Vontae but that was pathetic!!!!!!
2. Learn how to play call! McGee has a second and four on the 20ish and we go to two inside handoffs? 2nd and four is a dream down and distance and we don’t play action pass, screen, or go for the endzone?
3. We have gone from an opportunity to find out what we got at QB to a full blown cluster bleep!! With 6:30 to go and down by 7 we put the running QB back in? How about giving it to the guy who does both and start a drive. No bring McGee in when they know you have to pass. Thought that last 6 plus minutes put both men in a zero win situation.
4. Did Brent really say that the coaching staff knows that McGee has the better arm and is faster? He just doesn’t run this offense as well? Brent, are you refering to the offense that is stinking up the joint when the opponents have the slightest clue how to stop the run? How about our coaching staff adapt!!!!
Mendenhall gets an A the rest much less. As Tupper said no Hart, Mannignham going to the locker room, and Henne so banged up he used his left hand to shake hands at the end of the game I’d say the defense gets an F.
Jay - I think he’s brilliant also!
Bill - Nowitzki is a really good player. I thought you were trying to convince me Tisdale and him were equal at that point in their career. Dirk was the 9th (?) pick in a heavy draft. We would be lucky if Tisdale evolves to a first rounder.
Jake - I’m not against a 7-footer shooting away from the basket I just don’t see the point. Every 7 foot perimeter player needs help to win it big. David Robinson, Garnett, Nowitzki. Now the talk is Nowitzki needs a guy around him to take the pressure shot. Fact is during Tisdales heyday the Illini will be loaded with bodies at guard and small, small forward. Now if Tisdale is a great passer that would help. Of course you need cutters and the motion offense isn’t really cutter heavy to the basket.
You must be young as I had no idea who those bands are.
October 21st, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Ron Zook has consistently said that the offense will be built around the skills of the people he has. That’s obviously why we’re stuck with the option. It’s a shame to waste all the talent we have at wide receiver and tight end (O, where o where has my little tight end gone?). I daresay if Chad Henne was playing for Illinois, we wouldn’t be an option team, and we’d be 8-0. We have 2 games coming up where McGee can get some great experience, please give him the ball.
October 21st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
I can’t blame either of the young quaterbacks for that awful result. It was the ridiculous penalties and mistakes. For heaven’s sake, if you’re gonna pull on the receiver’s face mask, make sure no official is watching! (Not that I’m saying you should). And not catching that punt? Once Illinois gave Michigan that touchdown, the game was over.
I can’t say that I see McGee making better decisions than Juice, and I can’t say that Juice has any more potential than McGee. They are both young, both need a lot more experience before we know what they can really do, and they both get a little too excited from time to time. Is there another D-1 team that is successful using a Sophomore and a Freshman as their 1 and 2 QBs?
This team is still a work in progress, so I’m just happy that they have won more this year than in the past two years combined and am optimistic that they will be much better next year.
October 21st, 2007 at 2:29 pm
I don’t think musical quarterback is the answer. Once McGee was brought in, I think he should of been allowed to stay. Illinois was still in the game till Hudson dropped the fair catch. I agree penalties really hurt the team. From the stands it seems that Illinois was penalized significantly more yards than Michigan. What was the ruling on the Michigan touchdown that was reviewed, from the stands it sure looked liked the receiver was out of bounds?
October 21st, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Good comments, Mark, and we appreciate you calling it like you see it. What McGee hasn’t demonstrated at all, however, is the ability to run an option attack. I can’t recall once where he has pitched the ball to the RB on an option. If that’s going to remain part of the offense, McGee has to demonstrate that he can make the right read and get it done.
October 21st, 2007 at 4:53 pm
You know why McGee didn’t get time in the first half?
Because Williams was playing too well.
Look, the issue is not either QB. That’s a mirage.
The issue is that we have an offensive coordinator who has no gameplan, doesn’t call plays based on tendencies of defencies, doesn’t call plays to the strength of his personnel, undermines the confidence of his players with his substitution patterns, and doesn’t put the ball in the hands of his nbest players.
Great recruiter, terrible playcaller. I hope that inevitable head coaching job for Locks comes along this off season.
October 21st, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Not to mention our receivers not named Benn are terrible - that’s a pretty big part of not being able to throw the ball.
And our passing schemes are not good enough to get mediocre receivers wide open, like, say Purdue.
October 21st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
My thoughts is this. I sat with people who were upset, disappointed, and they even called into a radio show and complained. You know, the most important thing is that these kids get an education. IL had alot of chances to easily win that game. 3 weeks ago Zook was a genius. Tommorrow morning we will all be Monday Morning QBing. Its a game, u lose some, you win some. There is now way 18 and 19 year olds should have this sort of presure put on them. Carrying the anger and disappointment of goofballs around the world. It was fun. It was up. It was down. Im not sure which is more important. They win that game, or they have their homework ready to turn in, in the morning. I think tim cain would agree. Its a game and everyone needs to keep this in perspective. Look at all the freaking presure placed on 15,16,17 year olds in highschool.
October 21st, 2007 at 6:25 pm
And as long as the Illions fans, media, coaches and players over-hype this obsession with Michigan, how can we expect an Illinois team to have the composure and poise to beat Michigan?
October 21st, 2007 at 6:58 pm
How soon we forget all those successful years while few and far between when the Illini were one dimensional with the pass. It’s amazing we’re this successful this quick with the run. Give them the time they should have to turn a program around. I’m not saying that Juice should continue with the number of minutes he’s playing but that we should avoid the negativity about talking about 1 dimensional offenses since it’s understandable a good program needs something to hang their hat on to build on.
October 21st, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I’ve been an Illini fan for nearly 50 yrs. Ever since Bo Batchelder stole the ball out of Bob Griese’s cocked hand and ran it in for a touchdown. A defensive statue of liberty play. I spent my college years at Illinois during the Jim Valek era. And I lived through the Gary Moeller fiasco (of which Loyd Carr was an Assistant coach. And most recently the Ron Turner problems, and I never gave up On Illinois football, but I’ve had enough!Everyone knows that Zook can recruit, Or is Locksley that’s doing the recruiting? But a head coach that doesn’t know how to and refuses to take advantage of the weapons he has is going nowhere! There is much more to coaching than just recruiting.And if you have all of the best weapons in the world and can’t win where does that get you. All of those penalties, and especially the stupidity of most of them shouts out poor coaching! And because of not giving Eddie McGee the developing he needs, we do not have 2 QBs, we have none! Sombody give me a call, either when Zook leaves or if Juice happens to get injured for the rest of the season!
October 21st, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Another $300,000 raise for Zook and we will win another game yet. We’ll see what the rest of the season brings.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Tupp, until Zook opens his eyes and realizes that Locksley is not a teacher of the QB position, and either go gets a QB coach, or moves Beathard, who is a former QB coach, to that position, both Williams and McGee are going to struggle at that position. You have to have someone who can teach that position from experience. Locksley is a RB coach. Zook, please put your ego aside for the betterment of the team and get someone who can develop these 2 guys. Otherwise, Illinois, under Zook, will always struggle at the QB position. And one other thing: I’ve seen enough of the Kyle Hudson experience. If he wants to play baseball full-time, so be it. I’m tired of seeing his sorry ass on the football field. He can pack his bags and head back to Mattoon for all I care.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:46 pm
A 5-3 record at this time in the year is better than expected. There are plenty of positives and if the team can bounce back, any bowl game will be a plus.
But, the way the last 2 games have been lost is disturbing. After the win against Wisconsin, the question being asked was “How will the team handle this success?” We now know.
Iowa is a very average team. The Illini came out flat, the offense was more conservative than usual, the defense didn’t hit and despite only giving up 10 points, let Iowa off the hook too many times.
Michigan is, as always, a very tough team, both physically and mentally. They are a good bet to win the rest of their games and get a BCS game. Were it not for a fumbled snap and an goal line interception in the 3rd quarter, Hudson’s muffed punt wouldn’t have been an issue.
But,the game was there to be had. There were inexcusable penalties. Again, the tackling was not sharp. The coaches have the best idea who should be the QB, but have decided neither can be be a passing threat or just don’t have enough receivers to throw to. (surely a tight end can get open once or twice a game)
Blame things on youth, inexperience, the pressure of Big Ten competition and a national audience. But if we praise the coach and reward him financially, let’s give him some blame.
I don’t know who’s managing the game, but there’s lots of mistakes being made.
Play calling - ok. Mendenhall’s the best option. Passing yards are a plus, but not a priority until the QB’s are more comfortable or some better receivers arive.
Time management - sucks. Prior to halftime, Illini with the ball and 3 timeouts, and let the time expire. One of the things we’ve heard about Juice is how far he can throw the ball. Would a couple of hail-Mary’s in the last 20 seconds been such a bad thing. An interception would have been bad, but with such little time left, probably not put Michigan in a position to score. And and Illini reciever may have made a catch and give the field goal kicker a chance, with the wind.
The last 2 games, 2 other things really show poor game management. At Iowa, Illinois accepted a penalty, instead of putting Iowa in a 4th down decision. Last night, prior to half time, the roughing the punter penalty change the entire outlook for both teams. I don’t know if a block attempt was called, but certainly a concerted effort to not interfere with the punter was not evident. If you allow the punter to kick, chances were the Illini would have had the ball around the 50 yard line — with 2 plus minutes till halftime, with a 14-10 lead. A short field, the wind behind them, a running game that might have picked up a couple 1st downs, a very good FG kicker, and the Michigan offense on the bench. It turned into an inexcusable penalty, and if put in place by a coaching decision, and very poor play call. At worst, Michigan shouldn’t have got the ball back, and if they did, there would have been very little time left, and Illinois goes into halftime with a 14-10 lead.
Enough bitching for now. Hopefully the team will be ready for Ball State. If not, it is a team that will give some trouble. A win next week and another win or two against Minnesota or Northwestern, we will all feel good about this young and improving team.
October 21st, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I’m saying pick one. I have no confidence in this staff platooning these guys at all! Seriously, pick one and tell the other to transfer. We are looking at the possibility of ruining both these guys. For heavens sake Peyton Manning play actions 60% of his pass plays. Give these guys a chance!
Zook is our John Cooper. Interesting to see when our AD at the time can’t take it anymore (I’m not saying that should be soon. I will think there is value in several 8-4 seasons).
Andy Duphrane for punt returner!!!!
Anybody for Punter!!!!
October 21st, 2007 at 11:04 pm
when Zook was hired, we knew that his reputation was great recruiter, poor x and o’s guy. That was his reputation at UF. Poor 2nd half decisions cost him his job in gainesville. Why did he he recruit a great pass catching tight end and not throw to him. Game plans are planned out on sunday with all the coaches each offensive coach has a a view oint. Locksly and Zook make the final decision on the game plan. During the game Locksly will make 99% of the calls. The decision on the QB is made by the head coach with an input from the offensive coordinator and QB coach.
UF runs almost the same offense, but they have a guy named Tebow who is the main reason that offense works. Williams has the size and the ability to be a Tebow, but the play calling is not as consistent as FU is. Use Wiiliams as florida does Tebow. Throw game control passes, have a reason for running each play , rather than just call a play. Set up plays that will set up another play.
Lastly, Zook had a big problem with discipline when he was here. Dumb personal fouls and poor game decisions, just like the roughing the kicker call, taking penalties without thinking them through and poor 2nd half adjustments. The one thing that was said here was “If the game ended at half time, Zook would be undefeated”.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:52 am
I have several reasons why a 7-footer should step away from the basket to shoot, pass, or whatever, Mikey. (1)Because he can. (2) To draw a big away from the basket & open up the lane. (3) To have a much smaller player guarding him that he can easily shoot over if against a zone. What’s not to like about a 7-footer that can post-up, hit the MRJ, or hit the 3-ball, plus, can pass, handle the ball, & block shots? It’s like getting 2 or 3 players in 1 package rather than just a post-up 7-footer. There are a lot more possibilities with a versatile player like that. We’ll have to decide for ourselves how adept Tiz is at all of his skills as well as the rest of the newbies when we finally see them play. I just think it will be exciting if he is that skilled, plus, it’s fun to root for a small-town guy once in a while.
I have nothing to say about the Mich. loss….you all have pretty well covered everything.
October 22nd, 2007 at 7:57 am
1) Juice was playing fine on Saturday. No reason to put McGee in at that point.
2) Why am I not surprised that Tupper fails to mention Kyle Hudson? Can’t criticize a local boy, can you?
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 am
Did anyone else see the fumbled punt by Hudson? What does this guy have to do to play himself off the field? We have a long way to go.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:21 am
Anyone still disagree with me about playing both QB’s? Start McGee now. You can’t keep switching them both in and out. It doesn’t work. How can either guy develop a rhythmn or confidence when Juice is looking over his shoulder all of the time and McGee is thrown in when the game is on the line? If Zook insists on playing both, then switch them each game. Not during the game. It’s ridiculous.
Everyone relax. You don’t go from winning 4 games in 2 years to winning a BCS game. It doesn’t happen very often. This is a young team. They will only get better. Zook just needs to start McGee now and let him make his mistakes early. Next year we should be in a BCS game. Go Illini!
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 am
1. The roughing the punter call was bad. Should have been running into the punter, 5 yards, kick it again.
2. The late hit “out of bounds” was a bad call. Michigan player still wasn’t out when contact was initiated.
3. Multiple no-calls on Michigan’s tackles holding out on the edge on running plays.
4. If they let Hudson continue to play baseball, they deserve what they get. He’s gone backwards since his freshman year.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:34 am
what does ron zook have in common with carlos zambrano? both fell apart after they got big fat raises.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:57 am
We’re a young, overanxious team trembling with desire to make a play. It’s really not the end of the world. I was so angry at roughing the kicker that I told my wife, “That’s it! We’ve taken the wind out of the sails of our defense, and they’ll end up scoring. That’s the game right there.” Then when we missed the first field goal to tie, the first field goal Reda has missed the entire year, I’m like, “we’re trying to lose this game.” And the one Michigan drive, where we gave them 2 or 3 first downs and about 45 yards in penalties… yeah. That works. Look, I’m no football coach, but I will say something I observed at the High School level. Little ole Mattoon went 8-1 this year, and something we observed in most of the games against tough opponents… when the defense was shaky and penalty-prone, the coach called timeout to settle them down. Some thought we were wasting a time out (or two). But then the defense came out and performed. I noticed at the end of the game, Illinois still had a time out to give. To me, that’s a wasted timeout. I know we’re trying to save them for crunch time, but perhaps it’s time to show some leadership, call a time out, and calm our overanxious, over-hyped defense down so we can really get a 3 and out, instead of a 3 and devastating penalty.
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:27 am
Obviously everyone is deeply disappointed to see the Illini give away a game against the stinking Wolverines of all teams. However, my guess is that, before the season, if any of you were asked whether 5-3 at this point in the season would get you fired up - you would have jumped all over that. At least I would have. You can rail on Williams, Zook and Locksley all you want. The way I see it is that, during the summer, everyone kept hearing about what a strong arm Williams has and how Benn was going to run deep on every play. Early in the season, teams were watching for that. But after running the ball down the throats of PSU and Wisco AND obviously not having any passing game at all, teams are now going to pack the line, flare their defensive ends against the option and things have stagnated. You know it, Locksley knows it, Zook knows it - it is what it is. Calling plays that the personnel can’t execute is pointless. The penalties and mistakes were infuriating. It’s a young team that is going to make mistakes. You can’t tell me Zook doesn’t tell them NOT to make personal fouls or drop punts - come on. Relax. I hate losing to Michigan every year, but instead of getting killed in a game that no one even cares about, at least we’re competitive into the 4th quarter on primetime national TV. I think things will continue to improve. Meanwhile, we have to suffer a little more and continue to support these guys.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:04 am
I am not sure what game people are watching. In the first half Juice threw the ball really well. As the game wore on the playcalling got more and more predictable and more and more often Juice was put in 3rd and longs (is Ron Turner the offensive coordinator?!?). Juice is not the problem, poor pass catching and game plan that each game starts out aggressive and gets more and more conservative as the game progresses. Juice made one bad throw one mediocre throw (which Kyle Hudson should have caught) and a bunch of excellent throws. The bigger question is how the heck does the guy who ran into the punter and also had a late hit penalty earlier - keep getting on the field. That roughing the punter penalty was the game instead of having the ball at Michigan’s 42 with 430 to go in the first half we gave the life…at least a 10 point swing and game over if he doesn’t do that…that is Hudson’s second dropped punt by the way - in the IU game we got a questionable break on his muffed catch.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:31 am
After the boneheaded roughing the punter incident, the one personal fowl after another and wrapping it all up with the timely dropped punt,(all on prime time tv)I was too emotionally exhausted to be upset once the game was over. I actually put this season in perspective and realized that this team has exceeded all of my expectations. “If” we win two or three more and get into a bowl that would surpass the preseason expectations even further. This is still a young team with some glaring weaknesses of which you guys and gals have covered them all very thoroughly. It stinks that we have to be reminded by the Michigans of the world who didn’t even bring their “A” game that we are not quite ready for prime time yet. But hey we did beat a Penn state team in a game that could have just as easily gone the way the Mich. game went. If we can keep our win/loss tally in the mid-range of the B-10 standings by the end of the season, I’ll feel pretty good about this program. More great recruits are on the way to fill the holes. Keep the faith baby we’ll get em next time.
October 22nd, 2007 at 10:47 am
KyM-Thanks. I called for Hudson to sit after the Penn St. game. He has hands like rocks. It looks like he is totally out of his league at this level. He drops passes, drops punts and doesn’t know when to make the catch and when to let it go, and still we use him back there. I want to beleive in Zook. Far and away, this is the most talent we have had on the field since the Mike White era and maybe ever. We are now deep in running backs, receivers, D-line and O-line. Michigan was there for the taking. But, like others here, I am wondering about Zook’s on-field coaching ability. Of course, all football coaches are helmut-heads. They refuse to make changes until they are forced to do so.
Jimmy C-Yes, I saw the holds, mostly against the pass rushers and on the perimeter on their sweeps. those calls are the referee’s and umpire’s responisbility as well as the linesmen on the edges. Michigan has been known for that crap for ages and yet the only time they are called for it is vs. Ohio State. This conference and ABC are so hungry for that “big” match-up on the last Sat., I think they will do almost anything to see that it happens.
ckasch-At first, it looked like the Mich. receiver’s arm touched down out of bounds BEFORE his feet touched down in bounds, but after several replays, it appeared his feet were down first. Still it was difficult to tell, and I thought for a while that the evidence was not convincing enough to change the call. I guess that rule only works against the “second-tier teams”, not the Michigan’s ond Ohio State’s.
Topcat-I remember the Batchelder/Griese play, too. Did you know that Griese lost several teeth when he tried to make the tackle on Bo near the end zone? Your weapons analogy is excellent. Who wouldn’t use the best weapon he had when going to war? That was the most frustrating loss to Michgan yet.
I don’t agree with many here who think the late hit out of bounds was a lack of discipline. The ball carrier was still on his way out of bounds and the Illinois player was in motion toward the runner while he was still in bounds. B10 officiating is atrocious. The rule I was ALWAYS told to live by was, “See the ENTIRE play”. B10 officials rarely do. The roughing the kicker call was weak also. The Michigan kicker saw the Illini player coming toward him. The kicker swung his leg around toward the Illini, then dropped it (his leg) on our guy’s head and fell down. Our guy was ducking, trying to avoid any contact. At most the contact was inadvertent. The Michigan kicker put on quite an act and the referee, who was incredibly weak all night, bought it. Until Delaney uses some criteria other than somebody’s kid or buddy to select officials, this garbage is going to continue. Both calls were critical to the outcome of the game, and both calls were very weak - not necessarily wrong, but weak. What disappointed me most was that Zook just let both calls go. I think he should have raised holy hell with those officials on the sidelines as well as the referee in the middle of the field. Let them know that the days of Illinois being league doormat are over. He could have taken a sideline penalty on himself just to make his point and fire up his kids. I have seen it work more times than not, and believe me, as an official, you will make sure you SEE THE ENTIRE PLAY the next time! And if you don’t see it, YOU DON’T CALL IT!!
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 am
Yeah Jimmy Chitwood, I saw lots of the Michigan holds that were never called by the refs. especially the holds by Long. I never said anything about it in my first post, because we screwed up so many other things it would sound like whining.
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:35 pm
How about limiting comments to 50 words or less? Some of these guys must not have day jobs that we can tell them to keep. Also, how about numbering comments like you used to do?
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 pm
You guys look like a bunch of refugees from the Illini Board with all the grumbling and complaining that’s going on. It was a nice respite from all the naysaying as long as we were winning game after game and kept the whiners silent, but our team, which Zook has been saying all along is green, makes some rookie errors and loses a few games, and we’re back to hearing “Zook can’t coach,” and “Locksley can’t call plays,” and “Juice is a horrible QB” Lighten up you bunch of Eeyores!
Lets compare Juice to another young quarterback. There was a guy a few years back named Kurt Kittner who didn’t turn out too shabby (third on Illinois all-time passing list, nine career 250 yard games, drafted by NFL), but as an 18-year-old freshman from Schaumburg, Kittner had 782 passing yards with a 44% completion rate and 86 passing yards per game average, 4.8 yards per pass, and this was on a team that was built around the pass. Let’s compare this to Juice’s freshman year, where he had 1489 passing yards with a 39% completion rate with 124 yards passing per game and 5.71 yards per attempt. This year, while being platooned and with game plans built around the run instead of the pass, he still has 98 passing yards per game and has raised his completion percentage to a more respectable 55.6%. Would I like to see them air it out more to clear out the running lanes? Sure, but that implies you have the receivers to make the pass a viable threat on any given play and we do not. I’m not worried about it; we’ll get there, but right now receiving is a weakness. When we get a pair of hands who can hang on to the ball, Juice’s stats will shoot up noticably. I feel bad for Kyle Hudson, just as I felt bad for Tim Brasic, who stumbled his senior year, but I’m confident that it won’t be long before Zook brings in a track star with sticky hands who takes the defensive pressure off Benn and once in a while lights up Memorial Stadium. Add a punter who can put the ball 40-50 yards downfield with regularity so we’ve got a shot in the field position battle, and we’re going to have a heck of a team. In the meantime, let’s review where we were at this point in prior years:
2002 W3-L5 —
2003 W1-L7 —
2004 W2-L6 —
2005 W2-L6 —
2006 W2-L6 —
WSo, now we’re 5-3, on the way up, enjoyed a week of being ranked, and are virtually guaranteed to play in a bowl game. Why don’t you guys just relax and enjoy the season instead of agonizing over every burp along they way?
October 22nd, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Someone help me out? The Illini lead the league in rushing yardage. They are dead last in passing yardage. Surprise surprise, they can’t throw the ball! I think we all know that is the main problem on offense and that has been smothered enough here.
However, I can’t find any stats on team defense. They don’t seem too bad on rush defense, but pass defense? Where do they stand? I think that is one of the main problems, the pass defense. Not just not being able to throw the ball or kill themselves with silly mistakes with ill timed penalties and turn overs. I think with experience that will improve with the so many young guys that are playing. Ever learn anything in life from making a stupid mistake? I know I have made plenty and hoped that I learned from them.
So, my main question here ladies and gents is this:
Does anyone know where they stand on pass defense in the league statistically? Thanks.
October 22nd, 2007 at 3:31 pm
You’d think with all the horses zook has brought in, would have trouble choosing a punt returner, not settling for EB Halsey reincarnate. It’d be a 100% improvement just to out somebody out theyr who’d catch the ball and make good decisions on which kicks to let go. Running would just be icing on the cake.
Out of all the problems addressed above, the decipline seems to be the most easily fixed. If you run through the kicker, that’s your last play of the half. If you clearly hit a player out of bounds, have a seat on the bench.
October 22nd, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Hey, hOW about a 50 word limit on comments? Honestly, Some of these guys need to be told to “Keep your day job !”
October 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Is it just me or is Juice 5-6 passing at then end of every first half? It seems like they have some scripted passes that they practice all week and by the end of the first half Juice has completed all 5 passes that he can. He can’t lineup and read a D. He can’t escape the rush. He has no accuracy on the deep ball or any other ball. He can only make passes when he knows exactly where he’s throwing it before the snap. If McGee scores on 75% of his possessions why would you only put him in with the game on the line? And did anyone else see how the running game opened up from the I when McGee came in? Defenses have to respect him. 2 weeks straight that the opposing D Coordinator has said that he doesn’t want to see McGee on the field. If the other teams coaches get it, why don’t Zook? You have a good line that can block in the spread or from convential packages, scrap the Option and runa real Offense that uses your weapons. Then rotate in Juice for a possesion or 2 throughout the game to run the Spread Option.
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Bill R,
Illinois is tied with NU at 252 yds/gm in passing defense. Only Minnesota is worse in the league. Nationally they are tied for 87th.
October 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 pm
I watched the game on tv, like always. The penalty of running into the punter as others stated was a terrible call. It should have been 5 yards if any. I still like the fact that that it was an aggressive play, it could have worked. Punt returns-I haven’t cared much for Kyle’s decisions. Maybe he makes the decision to field the ball, maybe not. I always wanted him to field the ball because it seems like it kept ending up on the 4 yard line. I’m not so sure I want him to try anymore. However, was it Willis who tried fielding the ball and it went off his leg? Then things were made even worse by an Illini player that blocked a Michigan player in the back resulting in half the distance to the goal. I saw a lot of stupid penalties in this game that cost us the game. I have seen in the last two games the inability to stop the run. Poor tackles? Missed assignments? Over pursuit? I don’t know the exact answers. I don’t believe it is Coach Zook’s fault. I think Juice is making better decisions. I think when McGee gets under heavy pressure he makes really bad throws. I remember two key interceptions in the red zone that cost us a chance at victory in two different games. Not to say he can’t become better. He threw behind Benn(I believe) that could have been a first down. So he isn’t perfect either. I like Vontae. He is very good. The ball was underthrown and the Michigan player was smart enough to slow down and get the pass interferance call. OK Vontae should have been looking back-easier said than done. He will get better,He will learn. With all that said, I was really sad Sunday. The reason? Because they could have and should have won the last two games. When was the last time anyone could say that? It hurts worse to lose when you know it was your fault and not a lack of ability. That is in any aspect of life. Who brought us to the dance? Zook and company. Play calling-according to an awful lot of you what you see is what we are able to do successfully right now. Jim C.
October 22nd, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Larry said: “You guys look like a bunch of refugees from the Illini Board with all the grumbling and complaining that’s going on.”
What we’re complaining about is losing 2 very winnable games; I love how some people can always cite records to support their position; when we criticized our BB recruiting, people through Weber’s 80% winning record.
Hey buddy; this Michigan team was playing without its starting RB, without its starting QB for 1/2 of the game, and without its top TE. And the Iowa team that looked like all star last week went to Purdue, and got pounded 31-6, and in case you missed, that same Iowa team got pounded at home by the same Indiana team we crushed on the road. No matter how you spin it, and what records you cite, the Illini gave away two games that they had no business losing.
The two teams are lost 100% because of the coaching, awful game plan, awful play calling, awful (more like non-existing) adjustment, and awful discipline.
BTW, I’m not being negative, this teams still has a chance to finish strong, and get to 9 wins (inc. Bowl win) nonetheless, anybody that says Iowa and Michigan losses are not going to leave a sour taste in his/her mouth for years is not a real Illini fan.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:19 am
I agree with Tupp’s article here. Good analysis on Juice’s inability to go through his progressions. I think the problem is, Zook made some big promises to Juice to get him to come to Illinois, and he wants to stay true to his word. Juice laid the groundwork for a lot of the other recruits to come to Illinois, and Zook doesn’t want to forget that. McGee sort of reminds me of a Vince Young type of player. Tall, fast, and with a good arm. I hope he gets a chance to play soon, I think he could be an awesome player. I still have faith in Juice…he just needs some time to develop. The team got so good so fast, he no longer has the time now. I guess it’s a good predicament to be in, overall. Just think, Yarn-armed Brasic was the starter going in to last season!
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:09 am
Somewhere up there I read something about cutting Kyle Hudson a break and not calling him out by name. Give him a break? Maybe you do not realize what he just cost us. This was MICHIGAN, not Ball State or some D3 team that no one cares about. No this was it, the biggest and most important game this year. So do not tell me to cut him a break or say he sure tried his hardest because that does not amount to a W. Almost catching a punt and ALMOST catching a pass can get you a seat on the bench. Thank you Kyle Hudson for losing a Big Ten championship and thank you for letting us lose to Michigan, AT HOME, AGAIN!!! Stick to baseball.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:34 am
Thank you Tex. I thought the pass defense was one of the worst.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:32 pm
I’m pretty sure quarterback isn’t our only problem with the passing game. I don’t think Locksley was trying to take pressure off the QBs by saying EVERYONE involved in the passing game needs to get better. We need to get faster (at least) and bigger (hopefully) at wideout. Anybody notice the difference between Michigan’s receivers and ours? With that in mind, we just got a verbal from a wideout from Florida, #98 overall player in the state.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Bill in Canada-You say you had never seen anything like the Michigan defender daring Hudson to catch the ball on the punt? You apparently didn’t see the Penn St. game. Same thing. the officials called it catch interference, but it wasn’t. It was just total ineptness on the part of Hudson.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Larry- Comparing Juice to Kittner? Give me a break. Kittner had touch, accuracy, and could read through his progressions. Juice can’t. Start McGee now!!!!
Hudson’s fumble was the killer. After 2 bad penalties, we finally stopped them and forced Michigan to punt. The fumble led to an easy TD. It’s frustrating watching Zook switch QB’s every other possession. How can either one develop a rhythmn or confidence? Then he puts Juice in when we need to pass and move the ball down the field? Unbelievable.
I can live with a young team making mistakes while learning how to win. Finishing with 7 or 8 wins is a huge step forward. But is this the start of many games to come where Zook loses it for us?
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Anonymous: Great post. Nothing to add.
Larry: Thanks for the stats and comparison to Kittner. Interesting. But I don’t remember Kittner being so inaccurate as Juice. I mean Kittner didn’t overthrow and underthrow receivers and he had the ability to read a defense and work through his progressions. Juice just seems overwhelmed at times.
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:01 pm
I have NEVER understood how or why people can say things like “we are so much better than we used to be” or “we are making great strides” when it comes to managing expectations. There is no such thing as last year. The PRESENT team you have should be the PRESENT expecatations you should have. PERIOD.
In years past we stunk and now we don’t. There is no reason THIS team should have lost to Iowa and one less stupid penalty probably gets us a win last weekend.
The absolute SCARY thing is that a Rose Bowl berth was actually laid out right in front of us for the taking and we gagged on it.
When the opprtunity presents itself (and us Bball fans know it doesn’t come along often) you have to kick the door down. Otherwise you underachieved-plain and simple.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Marlin and Brooks: I think you both are looking at Kittner in hindsight. I compared Juice to Kittner because the same things being said about Juice now were being said about Kittner after his freshman year–how he couldn’t take the pressure (literally and figuratively), made bad throws, didn’t understand the offense, had trouble spotting open receivers, etc.. Comparing freshman years, Juice had almost twice the passing yards of Kittner, even taking into account the fact Juice played a few more games his freshman year than did Kittner, Juice still got 50% more yards passing per game, with a similar completion percentage.
The Kittner you remember is the Kittner at his peak. Give Juice a chance to get there.
My whole point was that you guys are spending so much time ripping a bunch of teenagers apart that you aren’t enjoying what you have. There’s no one in Memorial Stadium yelling louder than me, so I’d challenge anyone’s different definition of what it means to be an Illini fan, but you guys seem to be saying that coming off a 2-10 record last year, you refuse to appreciate anything short of a national championship. It’s ot realistic and I feel sorry for anyone who looks at life that way. In between chump and and champ are degrees of successes to enjoy. Why not take advantage?
October 25th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Larry: No one here is saying they aren’t happy with the progress to date. But when you see the talent level, you expect more. And if you accept these losses, then you’ll be accepting losses every year, and accepting something other than what we are capable of accomplishing. If you don’t do your best, you are doomed to your own mediocrity. If we had not been capable of winning these last two games, I would not be so upset. If Ohio state proves to be far superior in talent than we are, then I will accept the loss and look to the bowl game and next year. But if we have them on the ropes as we did last year, and lose because Kyle Hudson cannot catch a pass or return a punt, when we have other capable kids watching from the sidelines, then I will be unhappy with the result, and I reserve the right to voice that opinion here.