We were reminded Saturday night that when a team is inconsistent, a couple of encouraging performances are likely to be followed by a clunker.
A clunker is what Illinois delivered at Penn State and as the game went along, I actually thought there might be a silver lining. I thought, OK, they win with style points at Minnesota. Maybe at Penn State they can win with all the ugly you could imagine. That would have been OK, because it would have meant Illinois was showing it could make big plays at the end of a close game.
But, nooooooooo. It was ugly and there were no big plays at the end. After Demetri McCamey hit a 3-pointer with 19.1 seconds to go to give Illinois a 51-50 lead, a defensive stop was called for. Instead, Talor Battle got past Trent Meacham and Rodney Alexander fouled him with 7.1 seconds to go. Battle made both free throws to put Penn State on top, 52-51.
Illinois had one final chance but the play they ran was a disaster from the start. Bruce Weber told them to call timeout if nothing developed. Instead, Brian Randle tried to thread a dangerous pass to McCamey, who caught the ball and had to tip-toe near half-court just to stay in bounds. McCamey had to unload the ball to Pruitt, who with the clock ticking down, tried to wheel into the lane and get off a shot. He did, but it was an air ball.
All of the offensive progress we’d see the last few games went up in smoke at Penn State. Illinois settled for far too many 3-pointers, didn’t get the ball inside the zone often enough and missed shots on a few occasions when they did get it in there.
McCamey, who has played so well lately, was 2-for-9 and that didn’t bother me as much as his reluctance to drive the ball inside.
Just nothing to feel very good about.
Now it’s on to a home game Wednesday against Wisconsin.
As for the Sampson stuff, it looks like Indiana will conduct a 7-day investigation during which it intends to prove beyond a doubt any one of the major violations. That will give them indisputable cause to fire Sampson, which I expect to happen on Friday. Dan Dakich will be coaching the Hoosiers Saturday at Northwestern.
And forget the Bobby Knight stuff. In an interview with his son, Pat Knight, it was revealed that Bob Knight has not recruited off campus for some time while at Texas Tech. He just didn’t have the energy to do it, Pat Knight said. That pretty much tells you Bob Knight is no longer a head college coaching candidate anywhere in Division I. And he was right to step aside.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Once again Bruce Weber was out coached.
1 whay was Sean Bruitt 9and his Marvelous hands) in the game with 7 seconds ?
2whay was the lineup that blew Minnesota away in the snd half never used?
Will Bruce Webe ever draw up a play that works in the last seconds of a game? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
February 16th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
The game was lost from the beginning by the team…not the coach. Most of them just looked flat…very slow to react…Pruitt and McCamey in particular just looked out of it.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Yes, the team was flat. How many times does the term offensive liability have to be defined. You simply can not play two offensive liabilities at the same time, regardless of any counter defensive strengths that may be offered. The substitution pattern indicates no confidence by the coach in 8 of the 9 players on the bench, and that is a very sad statement indeed. This one is directly on the coach.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
“Illinois settled for far too many 3-pointers, didn’t get the ball inside the zone often enough and missed shots on a few occasions when they did get it in there.” For cripes sake, how many times this year did this sentence apply?
Where’s the progress? These kids are in college!! You’d think they’d learn!
February 16th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Pruitt would have been in the game during the final 19 seconds for purposes of defense. HOWEVER, he was NOT on the floor with Illinois down two on the possession where McCamey hit the three to give Illinois a 51-50 lead. I’d say Weber has well learned when Pruitt should and should not be on the floor.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Does Bruce Weber never learn? Or, is he just too stubborn? Why in the world was Randle, Pruitt & Frazier in the game the last four minutes? They have proven thirteen (13) other times they cannot get the job done in crunch time.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Also, Weber promised more time for the young guns. Randle=37 minutes, Frazier=36 minutes, Alexander=9 minutes,Davis=5 minutes! This team cannot win with Randle, Frazier & Pruitt playing so many minutes. There isn’t going to be any late season run. There isn’t going to be any BTT run. Guenther & Weber both need to go. Sooner rather than later.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:17 am
I agree that Weber continues to show incompetence in getting his teams to perform important out-of-bounds plays.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:40 am
The only thing Weber is quilty of is not seeing that Pruitt and Randle were dudds when he recruited them. Recruits are like rolling the dice on a craps table. Both have a load of ability, but no basketball sense period. How dumb do you have to be to not call the time out your coach just told you during the time out if the play didn’t work. This is simple stupidity and look who didn’t listen Randle and Pruitt.
I have been an Illinois fan for over 40 years and have never in my life been so happy to see two players leave. I will be there on senior day to cheer for them leaving no achieving anything. Do bad Randle didn’t foul out last night then someone might have called time out instead of throwing that terrible pass.
I am looking forward to next year, because nothing can be worse than watch these two idiots playing. How many times has Pruitt been called for traveling this year, seems like 5 times a game. Good luck playing Pro Ball on your playstation!!
February 17th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Illini Fan, I could not agree more! When BW finally decided to go with more pt for the young guys, we scored a lot of points. Now back to Frazier, Randle, and Pruitt. Back to the same result. Alexander 9 minutes, Davis 5, Tisdale 13 and Brock only 11, and he had been playing quite well on offense.
I just don’t get it and never will. I like coach Weber but his choice of playing time has frustrated everyone on this blog all year.
I know Brooks Taylor, you will tell me he knows his players and rewards what he sees in practice… I respectfully disagree with his choices.
February 17th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Big Jack..I know Randle wasn’t one of Weber’s recruits, and in Weber’s defense, Pruitt was Mr. Basketball in Illinois his senior year. Enough of the supporting statement on Weber.
****
The question I have is when the team is down one with 7 seconds left, why in the holy name of Lou Henson does Weber have Frazier, Randle and Pruitt in the game. Frazier maybe, cause he can dribble. Randle? what all the sudden he’s going to make an 18 footer. Pruitt, great if there were 12 or 13 second left and the opportunity for a tip-in on a miss.
**
Why wasn’t Alexander (creates own shot), Tisdale (can hit from anywhere), and Brock not in the game at the end?
**
I think it’s because Weber was hoping one of the three stooges would hit a winning shot, so he could say see how important senior leadership is. Instead, he just looks like the same tired coach explaining why his team shot 25 three pointers, shot a scorching 38% from the field and 50% from the FT line…just pathetic.
**
I don’t mind losing to a good team missing their best player, but losing to Penn State w/out their best player is down right embarrasing. I am shooting from the hip on this one, but I believe this may be the first time PSU has swept a home-and-away from any B10 team since it joined.
**
Today is a new low in Illini bb history, and as much as I like Weber, if UI doesn’t win 20-some games next year, I think he should be fired (recruits coming or not, he already took one of the best PG in Illinois and turned him into a top of the key passer.
**
Finally, please….let the kids play. Against Minnesota (who is much much better than PSU) we have Davis, DMac, Jordan, Tisdale, and Meacham on the floor and we blow the game open. In this game, the bench played less minutes combined that any one of the upperclassmen…..just pathetic. Sorry for long post, just so upset with coaching, senior leadership and lack of playing five-on-five basketball. With Frazier and Randle in the game, it is really 3 on 5 when the Illini are on offense.
February 17th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Play the Three Stooges tons of minutes, and this is the result you’ll get. Didn’t Bruce learn after that Indiana game not to leave Pruitt in for the final play? Pitiful!
February 17th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Five minutes for Mike Davis?
Zero minutes for Jeff Jordan?
Thirteen minutes for Tisdale?
Thirty-six minutes for Chester Frazier?
I’d rather lose to Penn State by ten playing Davis, Tisdale and Jordan than win by one playing Randle, Pruitt and Frazier. And they can’t even do that!
February 17th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Another in a long list of disappointing finishes as the offensive challenged Illini returned to the court. With less then 5 minutes to go our experienced players make key turnovers, Randall dibbles the ball off his leg after passing on an open 15 footer, Chester travels and Pruitt shoots an airball from 6 feet. As for SP he appeared to be out of it last night. He brought no energy and looked like he did not care if he was in the game or not. On the other hand I thought Tisdale looked very good and showed alot of confidence. Weber has to get the young guys in the game and get them some confidence this year. Or maybe he does not want to do this so next year, when they lose, he will have a built in excuse.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Pruit and Randlel are ok its the players coach plays with them. Frazor is a naia power forward Meatchum is mid major in overal talent at best, why want he try Alexander and Brock in the same line up?
February 17th, 2008 at 10:34 am
I have said this before, but it needs repeating. Bruce Weber was called a great coach when he had Self’s players, namely, Williams, Brown, and Head. Now that he has to use his own players, he is nothing more than a dud. Get rid of him, Guenther!!
February 17th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Randle and Pruit. are the best players on this team, followed by Brock and Alexander, wait till next year when tisdle gets two rebounds a game.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Shark- If you are going to quote me, atleast quote me right. The one thing that I do criticize Weber for is playing Randle and Pruitt way too much. I’ve criticized there play all year long. I like that Weber makes the freshman play defense if they want to be on the court, but now is the time that McCamey, Alexander, Tis, Davis, and even JJ should see alot more pt.
I didn’t see the game. Hearing that Randle throws a bad pass and Pruitt shoots an airball doesn’t surprise me at all. Atleast they didn’t foul Pruitt. I couldn’t stand to watch him brick 2 more freethrows to lose a game. Randle is your senior. He has the talent to drive to the basket anytime he wants too. He should be demanding the ball in the clutch. And what does he do? Nothing aggrevates me more than someone who doesn’t use his God given abilities. Believe me, with Randle and Pruitt gone, we will be a better team next year.
Big Jack- Self recruited Randle, not Weber, but it really doesn’t matter though. I don’t blame Self or Weber. Why can’t we blame players for not living up to there potential? You can’t teach Randle to be tough and have some heart. Pruitt is a skilled lefty who is good around the basket, but he just has no vertical leap or stamina. If Pruitt had any type of vertical leap, he would be a dominate center in the league and playing in the NBA next year. Unfortunately, he doesn’t. Face it everyone, this isn’t a good team. We have a lot of inexperienced freshman and two senior failures, that’s why we are 11-15. Believe me, it hurts now, but things will get better. Go Illini!
February 17th, 2008 at 11:52 am
If one was a coach it would be difficult to sit one’s seniors down, but there certainly was not any “senior leadership” yesterday. Giving the underclass significantly increased playing time against Wisconsin, Michigan State, and perhaps two games in the BTT, as others have suggested, may be the way to go. crk
February 17th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Shark and Illini Fan, I feel your frustration. When a team with D1 level players decide to zone the Illini, Frazier, Pruitt, and Randle are liabilities. They do not posses the offensive skills to be affective. Thus, when they receive the bulk of the minutes, chalk one up in the “L” column.
**
It is easy to coach when your most talented players work in every situation; however, when you must adopt your lineup based on how the opponent defends - that’s when you earn your $1M salary. In my opinion, Weber hasn’t earned his salary this year.
February 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
As attested by the fact that we have played close in losing to every good team we have played, we have more talent than given credit. The problem is that in spite of the talent, these guys, especially the (so called) leaders have no basketball instinct to do the right thing. Whether it is bad karma, chemistry, or what have you, this team is a disaster. Why, Weber doesn’t abandon the upperclassmen is mind boggling. I suppose that Weber thought they had turned the corner and could make a run in the BTT. Clearly, the seniors plus Chester and Brock are leading this team into oblivion. Start and play the kids extensively, not just try to increase their minutes. I have been a defender of Weber, but his assessment of this team has me in a quandary.
February 17th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
that game had everything i have been saying all year in it. this has got to be bruce webbers worst coaching year. i hope. are coaching has been just terriable this year. i liked it when they hired webber. up till last year i thought he was a pretty good coach. sense gordon changed his mind and jumped ship it looks like too me webber just gave up after that and you see that in his team. no coach in his right mind would have pruitt in the game on offense with 7 seconds too go in the game and your down 1 point. had that ball gone to tisdale or mike davis or shawn alexander at the end of the game we might of had a chance. at this stage of the season what is webber thinking? can any fan that knows anything about basketball honestly answer that question? too all those people who voted for him too be coach of the year in 04-05 ill bet they would vote him the worst coach of the year this year if there was such an award he would win it hands down. sampson seems too be a cheater but if your the gordons your thanking god thats where eric went because webber has lost his basketball mind.
February 17th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Opposing coaches must love seeing Frazier on the court. Against a zone he can’t shoot or drive, he is NO offensive threat. BW sometimes has lineups with 2 scoring options. BW’s rotations this year have been terrible.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
A possible reason for our sluggish play at Penn State could have been due to travel. First, we go to Minnesota (the second longest travel location for Illinois) and then come back and travel to Penn State (the longest travel location) which is not easy to get to. You have to fly into Harrisburg (doubt it was a direct flight) and then take a one and a half to two hour bus ride up to State College. No excuse, just a possible reason.
=
Is Penn State our daddy now? It’s frustrating to have the worst or second worst program in the Big Ten own you.
=
Just as I took Sean Pruitt to task after the first Penn State game, so am I doing after this yawner. In a game where Sean should have dominated the paint, he did almost nothing. With a small Penn State team playing a zone defense, Sean should have been a monster on the offensive glass. Instead, he got 1 in 23 minutes of play and only 3 defensive rebounds. And we missed 32 shots, so there were plenty of opportunities for offensive boards. If it wasn’t for his 4 turnovers, he would have gone unnoticed. At least until that last shot. And I don’t blame Sean for that last shot because he should never have been on the floor.
=
But I will say this about that shot, it was not that bad of an opportunity. If you didn’t see the game, don’t believe those who say it was a terrible look. It wasn’t that bad of a shot for anybody except Sean. It was a contested 8-10 foot stop and pop, but he was under control and no one was slapping at the ball. I would say Tisdale, Brock, Alexander and maybe even Davis make that shot more often than not. But with Sean’s shooting style, which I can only describe as a short armed shot put attempt, he misses badly. And by badly, I mean it didn’t come within two feet of the rim. So I don’t blame Sean for the last shot, but I do blame him for missing an opportunity to carry his team to what should have been an easy victory.
=
In fairness to Randle on the last in bounds pass, McCamey could have caught the ball, stopped at half court and called time out. The criss-cross pick play that Meacham and McCamey ran at half court was not executed very well which made Randle’s pass more difficult. Randle did his job, he got the ball to half court in the hands of an Illinois player. McCamey could have called time, Pruitt could have called time.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
It’s obvious that some of you making the most critical comments dont’really know basketball. The level of intensity that the WHOLE team played with at PS was not near the level that the team played with at Minn (I don’t blame the coach). Last week, PS beat Michigan State in Happy Valley (should we blame Izzio for being a poor coach?). Since MSU was suppose to be one of the top teams in the B10, I guess that should make the MSU loss a bigger disgrace than the Illini loss. Alexander failed to put himself in the proper position to provide weakside help on the drive that resulted in the winning FT’s. It would be nice if many of you saw the details of the game if you plan to be so critical about who should and should not be playing. In a one point loss, EVERY player made at least one mistake that could have been the difference in the game. Coaches get more blame than they deserve when teams lose and more credit than they desire when team win.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I am no psychologist. But I am told the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results. Well, Bruce may have lost his mind. Because last night sure looked alot like the end of the Maryland & Arizona games. Same thing…over & over…& same results. Perhaps some scorers should be on the floor at crunch time. It doesn’t seem that hard. That is why I am baffled as to why Weber can’t figure it out.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
bggdaddy: Pruitt and Randle may be the best all round players on the team, but they have not gotten the job done this season. If you could only pick one play to exemplify this season, that last play of yesterday’s game might be a good choice.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
The more Weber coaches the Illini with his own recruits, the more we realize what a lousy coach this guy really is…and the losing mentality is really setting-in now, particularly with the younger players as they know they can’t win with a terrible coach like this guy.
I mean if hacks like us now know that, the players do as well.
Comparing Weber to Painter and what he (Painter)has done with his own young recruits at Purdue, it is obvious that we got the worst of Keady’s assistants…thanks for nothing, Guenther…you idiot.
Weber did so so with Self’s players (I say so so because I still believe that the 2004 team with any coach other than Weber would have won the National Championship), but with his own recruits, his shortcomings come to fore.
Did I read somewhere on these blogs that Guenther will be retiring soon? I sure hope so…the sooner the better…please leave soon and don’t let the door hit your a– on the way out…and please, please, please take Weber with you.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
end of the game coaching was as bad as i have ever seen. Why did Weber call time out after the made free throw why not wait till the ball gets to mid court? call time out and run a play for Mecham , mcCamey or even tisdale. Why was Pruitt even in the game! If Randle, Brock or McCamey could throw the ball inside maybe there would be an inside game. I counted on 8 different occassions that Randle saw Tisdale have his man beat, Randle looked and passed it to Frazier. Randle either isn’t smart enough to pass inside or he just doesn’t want to. Some people said Tisdale got his dunk blocked, yes he did, how many times has pruitt had his shot blocked this year and he is a senior. The last 5 minutes of the game Frazier travels 3 sec violation on pruitt, turnover by Pruitt and finnall bad passes and an air ball by Pruitt to end the game. Pruitt comes though again in the clutch. He is the best player the other team has at the end of the game. Go to your youth and bench Randle and Pruitt. I think this lost almost ends a shot at the NIT. I wanted to see Weber succeed and be there for the new recruits, but after last night, I don’t know if I want him here.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Biggdaddy
are you crazy those two have klilled Illinois all year with their inconsistant play. Neither of those two should have been in the game at the end. Weber shouldn’t been there either. The way he coached. I’m still upset on how he coached the final 7 seconds.
February 17th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
For all the Weber apologists on this blog, I have 3 questions:
1) what was Meacham doing, defensively, on PSU last play; why was he guarding Battle rather than another/better defender like Chester or Brock?
2) what was Pruitt doing on Illini last game; even if we would’ve had a play, chances are he would’ve been fouled.
3) Has Weber ever came out of a timeout with a well designed last play to win/tie a game? I have never seen a team has more botched last plays than the Illini, with more often than not us failing to even take a shot…
February 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Brooks-When exactly does Weber have to shoulder responsibility for the same sad ending to EVERY LOSS this year? Any idiot knows you do not play guys who can’t shoot free throws, are turnover prone and who play only average defense at the end of a game. Apparently Weber is trying to prove something, but it looks to me like the only thing he has proven is his inability as a coach. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Brooks, I’m sorry, pal, but there is NO DEFENSE for Weber’s actions this year. He is pathetic. More than anything else, Weber’s inability as a coach puts these so-called “Dream Team” recruits in jeopardy. Who wants to play for a dunce?
February 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Namber-Nobody anywhere has called anyone on this team a leader!
February 17th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I am really disappointed with Weber this year. The offense is stagnant at best with the two srs. and Chester. I cannot figure out why Davis does not get more time. He shines when he is allowed to play a number of minutes. It boggles the mind, he keeps playing the veterans at crunch time with the same results. Randle’s pass all but eliminated any chance the Illini had to win the game. I guess until Weber gets the better recruits in and he can rely on better upperclassmen he is going to flounder. Every game he reverts back to Pruitt,Randle (if not fouled out) and Frazier in crunch time. Can you imagine how good Tisdale might be at end of games if he had been allowed to play the entire season at crunch time. He wants to take the shot to win games and with more experience he will make them. He has a winner’s mentality.
February 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Izzo reacts to rush to judgment against Indiana’s Kelvin Sampson
Link
worth a read crk
February 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I NEVER, EVER, in my wildest imagination thought I would see the “Fighting” Illini lose Home and Away to Penn State. It’s time the coach realizes he needs to give the young guys playing time against Big Ten opponents, so they will be more experienced for next season. Start the freshmen and sit the seniors. They are not even in the battle to get to the NIT. Give the freshmen the opportunity to learn now and become sophmores early, and not wait until next season against the likes of Northwestern Southeastern Whatever U.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
I don’t believe Illinopis had a time out left. If Illinois called time out after the free throws they were out of time outs. I can’t understand why he didn’t get it to midcourt and then call time out with 4 or 5 sec left. The time out after the free throws gave Penn State time to set a press. The announcers said Illinois called time out. Who called it, does anyone know? If Penn State called it, it was a great call. If Illinois called it, it was brainless. If they did have one time out left, why didn’t Weber tell them to call time out at mid court. He could have called it himself. He could have informed the referees that was what he planned to alert them to of his attentions. No matter the last 7 sec were poorly coached.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
DLM, you have been a coach, would you have managed those last 7 seconds the same way? Wouldn’t you have called timeout with the ball at midcourt?
February 17th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
As sad as this game was, it is evident to me that this team will play up to the best teams we play, or down to the lowest talent. In the end, we do not know how to finish. From the press reports, they apparently were to get the ball into the front court and call a time-out to set up some play but Pruitt didn’t understand(?) and tried to bull his way toward the basket.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I am also disappointed in last nights game and watched the whole thing! One observation is that this teams plays well enough to fight the best teams to the end as well as the worst teams. This they have maintained with some consistency, indicating that some of the problem is with team chemistry. I have my ideas as to the weak players, and although I am old enough to not wish time away, this team will be better next year.
Living in Indiana amidst the Hoosiers, it is obvious that many of you do not realize how well off we are with our Coaching Staff, Athletic Director, young players and the defensive hustle of Chester Frazier.
After church this morning, it was pathetic to hear the IU fans who don’t know what has hit them yet. I well remember our own problems with the NCAA and they don’t have a clue as to how bad it will be for them.
We are so fortunate - We have a bright future whether you think so, or not. IU had better enjoy this year, which most of them are not doing now.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Weber said on the radio interview before game..paraphrased here but pretty close..”we need to play the freshmen more so they get some experience for next year and we are not kicking ourselves next Novemeber for not doing it.” Where does the line form for providing those kicks. I suspect it will be a long line. Who wants the first kick???
February 17th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
What disturbed me last night more than anything was the pathetic outside play when PSU was basically daring us to shoot. Hard to get the ball into Pruitt when they are draped all over him. I thought this game was essentially a microcosm of the season with our guard play.
In the end, what should we expect when our best player of late is a freshman and alongside him are a walk on and guy who should be a reserve. McCamey looked tired last night and the team in general seemed out of sync. The thing I fault Weber on was having Meacham guard Battle in the closing minutes. Why not put Jordan in or switch off Meacham to another guy? I knew from the moment I saw the match up that we were dead in the water.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Yes, I would have called a timeout. My understanding is that the team had been instructed to call a OT. Ihere was a game on TV Saturday where a player called a 6th TO which iced the game for their opponrnt. The bottom line is that we as fans, we should never assume that what we see is what was suppose to happen.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
i’m curious what did Weber say after the game.? Got to stay with the seniors, because they came through in the clutch, like me. Three peas in a pod.
February 18th, 2008 at 7:23 am
PSU called timeout after the made free throws. Illinois had a timeout left. They still have a timeout left.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:02 am
I had to blog to agree with DLM. “Yes I would have called a time out….The bottom line is that we as fans, we should never assume that we see is what was suppose to happen.” I am also an old retired coach and would have called a time out. But, second guessing is not the way to go. Good coaches will not do the same thing in all situations. If you go against the book you open yourself up for criticsm. Now, if a pattern of against the book decisions that does not work is another story.
One reason I blog is to try and help people see the differnce between what is and how you feel. A few blog up someone go on Pruitt for not calling a time out. By the time the ball got Pruitt it was not his job to call a time out. If you wish to be unhappy about no time out, it must be on the other four players and or the coach. Pruitt has worked his but off this year. If no ome else on the team is better, I would not bench him. More time for the young players would be good for the future and may improve Pruitt’s game by giving him some more rest. But, BW please do not have Pruitt in the game when we may need a FT. This is unfair to everyone, including Pruitt.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:06 am
If there was a time out why didn’t Weber call it? A coach can call a time out. Like I said earlier why didn’t he say to the official that he was going to call a time out when the ball got to midcourt. I blame Weber as much as the players. DLM am I not right?
February 18th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Why do we have Randle, Pruitt and Frazier in for the last shot…why do we have Alexander and Meacham in on defense against their last shot…what am I missing…
February 18th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Coaching a basketball team must be much more complicated than we realize. There has to be a reason why a coach would do the same thing the 14th time even though it didn’t work the previous 13 times. There has to be a reason why a coach puts his best offensive weapons on the bench during crunch time. There has to be a reason why players who shoot 70% plus free throws are on the bench during crunch time while players who shoot 50% minus are on the floor. I am sorry folks. This dog won’t hunt.
February 18th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Marlin. This same debate is getting old. A coach is only as good as his players are. This is a bad team. Period. While Weber got too much credit when he got to the NC game, he’s also taking too much grief for this year’s team. Even Coach K isn’t going to make this team a tourney team. Recruiting is what ruined this year, not coaching. Add in our two, under achieving seniors and that is why this is an 11-15 team. I just don’t understand why so many of you crucify Weber, but say nothing about Randle or Pruitt. It’s about as bad as the Bulls putting all the blame on Scott Skiles. Firing him didn’t change the team. They are still bad.
DIF- Now you are jumping on the Painter bandwagon the same way you were on the Weber bandwagon after the 05 season? Haven’t you learned that any coach can have one good season? You should change your screen name to Fair Weather Fan. Lets see what Painter does. While I like Painter and wish him luck, this is hardly a strong year for the Big Ten. I’m wondering if any of the Big Ten teams will make it to the Sweet Sixteen. Guenther just signed a two year deal. He was going to retire, but everyone wanted him to stay. Evidently, some people think he does a good job. What’s the real story? Did he steal your girlfriend away in high school or something? If anyone could have won with Self’s players, why do Deron, Dee, and Luther all give Weber alot of credit for there development? Wouldn’t they know more about Weber’s coaching abilities than any of us?
February 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
When I coached, my teams had 3 or 4 plays, any one of which we could call during the free throws if any were appropriate, or I could call the timeout from the bench if there was a play that I thought would work against the defense we were likely to see. This continued lack of leadership and preparedness from the bench is completely baffling. How many times has Weber faced Penn State? Do you mean to tell me that he doesn’t have a clue as to what play he could have called and practiced earlier in the week and had at the ready for a situation such as that one? God knows we’ve been in that situation enough this season. It should not have benn a surprise. And how do you suppose the players feel? It looks to me like the entire team has lost confidence in Weber.
February 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Old Injun-I have looked at this team over and over, and I have come to the conclusion that because of the relative weakness of the B10 this year, the “good” teams are playing down to our level rather than us playing up to theirs. In that situation, there is absolutely no reason for Pruitt to be on the floor for the last 7 seconds. You can pull him on the made free throw or even before the free throw. Randle, too. Then if you can get a McCamey or Jordon to drive to the basket and get fouled, you have a chance to convert the free throws for the win. With Randle, Pruitt and Frazier in for the last shot, you have doomed your offense to only 1 or 2 options, getting the ball to Pruitt or throwing up a prayer from 3-point land. Setting up a back door layup or dunk should be the first option.
February 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Ist option was be a coach and calm the team for the final seconds. He is to busy running the floor and screaming at players and referees. I really hate to rag a coach, but his decisions recently have been really poor. I believe most of you bloggers could have done a better job of coaching. Arm chair coaches could have done better. Did Weber take the blame in the post game for not having control of his team or the situation. With all my years of coaching, I have found kids are envolved with whats happenning now and lose focus of what should be called, that is the coachs responsibility.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Pruitt, Frazier, and Randle all on the court with a basket needed and 7 seconds to go? That’s what I would do if I was TRYING TO LOSE! Good lord, Chris Hicks has made just about as many clutch baskets this year as those three combined.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
jakeillini - a lot of folks have been asking why we don’t have our best free throw shooters in at the end of a close game - well, Alexander and Meacham are the best free throw shooters - Alexander at 70.5% and Trent at 81.4%.
*
IlliniFan - who was sitting on the bench with 70%+ FT average. Looking at the season stats - Alexander and Trent are the ONLY players with a FT% above 70%.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
brooks, you can’t keep throwing Coach K into the BAM nightmare. You said he wouldn’t win with this team. You mean the one PSU game. You mean if he had three season to work with them like BAM, You mean from start of practice this year???
+++
If only given since start of practice i argue that with Coach K they would be 20-6 right now. 9 losses were by 6 or less, and his coaching and game management could change those outcomes.
+++
Also i’d hire Coach Wojo off the Duke bench right now to replace BAM.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I’m talking the last four minutes. Not, the last seven seconds.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Also, Brock & Tisdale both shoot free throws at 65-70% Never mind, you obviously don’t get it.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Many think that we will be a lot better next year. I have real reservations about that. You still have the same coach making the calls and there will be little to no interior defense and very little rebounding. Also, don’t forget how badly Jamar was shooting last year — even before he got hurt. Defense also will be poorer. DMac and Davis are both overrated in my opionion. We can hope for improvement but there is such a long ways to go I just don’t see it.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Hedgehog- I have to disagree. No way this team would be 20-6 under any coach. The talent is not there. This dismal season is a recruiting issue, not a coaching issue. Coach K is used to coaching McDonald All-American’s and NBA All-Stars. It would be interesting to see what he could to with a team with average talent. And you want to get rid of BAM for an unproven bench coach? He hasn’t even coached anywhere. Hoping that was just a joke. Or maybe you are a big Dukie fan. Scheyer had a big game last night. 27 minutes and 0 points. Maybe you guys are right. He does sound like a good addition to this team.
RH- The team has played much better when Randle and Pruitt are on the bench. Losing those two and adding Jamar, Legion, and Simpson is an upgrade. Cole & Carlwell should be healthy, Davis, Tis, and Alexander will have all summer to bulk up. Jamar shot horribly his sophmore year because he was playing with two bad ankles. Hard to shoot when you can’t jump. From everything I heard, he is shooting lights out in practice. We know the kid can shoot when he is healthy. The big thing will be can he get confident and ignore the constant distractions during road games. And how can you say Davis & DMac are overrated? There freshman. Think we can give them more than one year? Heck, Deron wasn’t very good his freshman year either. Did you think he was overrated?
February 18th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Illini fan- This team doesn’t create alot of foul shots. They settle for jump shots. We only have two players that have attempted over 50 freethrows. Pruitt and Randle. Our two worst freethrow shooters. This team is normally trailing in the last few minutes. We need baskets then, not freethrows. Pruitt is in the game because he is our primary, inside scoring threat. I can understand your logic if we actually had the lead and the other team has to foul us. That’s when you substitute your best freethrow shooter’s in. Unfortunately, we haven’t been in that situation too much this year. Teams aren’t trying to foul us when they have the lead in the closing minutes. Unless, of course, you are Sean Pruitt.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Please Wake me up when BAM finally realizes how bad Chester is. Until then (and this includes next year if he starts), we will get much of the same.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
This is a good article from Mike Davis’s dad and talks alot about Weber. I’ll take a Weber over a Samscum anyday.
http://illinois.scout.com/2/671074.html
February 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
HedgeHog:Coach K is a hell of a coach and has ndone a great job at Duke. If you believe that Coach K and others would have went 20-6 this season, then by all means call for BW job. Think how nice it would be to have a Mickey D’s All American on the team. Now, count 1-2-3-4-5-6 and you have the number of Mickey D’s on Duke ( I may be wrong). Duke lost the other day with this talent and now he is going to win 20-6 with our team. Sorry, I can not buy that. I did believe that BW might go 20-6 because of his coaching ability shown in the pass with a little better than average talent. Do you think that the 23 wins last year was because of talent? On the surface I would have to say I’m not impressed with a lot of things I have seen this year. I do know for a fact that you will have a year, a team, a situation that nothing seems to work. I was happy when we hired BW because I believed that he could win without having great players. GK did it at Purdue with BW helping. BW did it at SIU with Painter on the bench. Many on this blog is getting tired of hearing about KU, NCU, Duke etc. Remember the point of talking about these teams. We can not and have not recruited with these teams. I believe we can get better talent and can hope for sometime in my life time to see 3 Mickey D’s on the Illini at one time.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Brooks, you missed the point. When you lose 9 games by 6 or less - it is coaching. You’re in the games and BAM can’t get them over the hump - just like the 05 NC game. 2 or 3 posessions make or break these games. It is proven that Coach K can make that up in a game - and easily over a season.
++++
Who from his team this year is going to the NBA???? Henderson is 6′4 and not an outside shooter at all - is he playing small fwd in the NBA??? Singler maybe if he stays two more years can go pro. Other than that - no-one on that team is NBA draft level. He’s #4 with that talent. Watch a Duke game vs. an ILL game on tv this wk and focus your attention on the sidelines and coaches (Head to assts) - there is world of difference in what goes on btw the two.
++++
Wojo right now is a better bench coach than BAM. He would not play 5 years changing D only 3 times. He has played in a NC game - he was an actual player (where did BAM play high-level ball at). He has been under Coach K’s mentorship for four years - so he knows what it takes to run the best of the best programs. He’s an asst coach to the US National team as well. He’s a recruiter on the staff as well. ILL’s only problem would be will he go back to coach at Duke after K retires. AND for the love of god i’m sure he has better O plays than having Dee-Chester-Demetri do the frantic dribble in the middle at the top of the key shot clock expiring - another bad possession drill we’ve had for three years now.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Illini fan - I get it. Too many losses with the same players - why not play the young guys that were recruited from successful programs - guys that know how to win - that’s why they were recruited. I don’t have a problem with that - I was simply pointing out that your statement on players with 70%+ FT isn’t correct and in fact, neither is the part about 50%-, the only 2 players that are 50%- are Davis and Cole. Yes, Brock and Tisdale are 67% and 65% from the FT line - but that ain’t 70+. No need to exaggerate FT% to make a point, reality has been painful enough.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Weber is a whiner that pouts and acts like a baby. But cut him some slack…..he is in over his head with a rag tag group of hanger-ons for assistant coaches.Throw in a bunch of undisciplined players who like to party and this is what you get.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
HedgeHog: You did it again. You seem to know how to push my buttons. I do not have a problem with what you say. You have the right. But the conclusion you come up with just are not very good. Your last blog you say that to lost 9 games by 6 or less points is the coaches fault. This is not a fact, it’s a maybe or maynot be true. If the Illini are as bad as many say, than BW must be doimg a heck of a job to get that close.
I believe in a silver thread that runs through some programs. I like the idea of Coach K assistants making great coaches. However, ask the people at Michigan and Missouri how it worked out for them. Nothing personal HedgeHog, but, someone needs to keep you on your toes.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I yield the floor to Tex.
February 18th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Coach K would be 20-6 with our team? What planet are you on Hedgehog? Seriously, how do these ideas pop into your head? On what evidence do you base this rather peculiar claim? crk
February 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I thought the world class red flag was raised by Weber LAST YEAR when he had to call timout BEFORE the team took the floor coming out of HALFTIME!!!!! I mean what exactly were they talking about in the locker room?
*
Is this team less talented than Drake? St. Mary’s? I realize their conferences are weaker comparatively. But neither of those teams have ANYONE from the top 100 in their class. Let alone Illinois Mr. Basketball. All I heard was how bad Indiana was. Well folks unless Sampson is some sort of coaching guru I don’t understand the disparity in these records.
*
Don’t count on next year so much. Improved yes, but Tisdale will see a tenth of the double teams Pruitt sees. That means much more pressure on the guards since exactly zero guards will be cheating down low on the double team.
February 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
My wish is that someone would make a play when it’s crunch time.
*
For those that pay attention, Weber does take responsibility. He also challenges players to step up or be consistent game after game.
*
I believe that a better play is drawn up than is executed. The final moments are an extension of the low BB IQ displayed throughout the game. Poor spacing, setting good screens, how to use a screen, getting inside a zone. If you teach in pracice to pass to the interior as the player flashes…the players do it…and then in the game don’t…is it coaching? We just have a bunch of non instinctive BB players that make poor decisions during the game. You can only teach to what the talent allows. I don’t think anyone would have predicted the lack of continual progress by Pruitt and Randle. At least CF has cut back on turnovers and bad passes.
*
Brooks….I enjoyed your last couple of posts, especially the link to the Davis interview. Thanks.
*
Yukon Chuck…thanks for your perspective. Where are all the Duke head coaches? How is Josh McRoberts? Reddick? Fouls were actually called on Duke and you see the result.
*
I am still rooting for this team and this year. Unfortunately, the NIT is looking more difficult. I too would like to see more of the young players get minutes. So Brian and Shaun, no offense but please foul early and often.
*
Peace Brothers
February 18th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
I knew i would have to explain it like i was talking to 2 year olds.
++
TSU, PSU (2), MOH, @ OSU, IU (ot) - are the 6 games that Coach K would have easily won if he was the coach of ILL. It’s not hard to believe that other losses would be W’s as well under him.
+++
It does not take a genius to realize that if he had them from the start of opening practice that his “program” (you do realize that the top schools in FB and BB have true programs???).
++++
The offensive sets, the changing defense, in-game strategy, influence with officials, understanding of the talent he is given and their strenghts and weaknesses, the staff and program he has - would accounted for wins that your beloved BAM didn’t and can’t get.
+++
The ideas are common sense. Not many on here have it, alas the support for 2nd Rd, 1st Rd, No Rd.
+++
“The best time to start any job is tomorrow” - BW
February 18th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I still say if we would’ve managed to hold on and win the Arizona game, this season could’ve been dramatically different. That loss, which resurrected and reinforced the Va.Tech game demons have really shut done the team’s collective psych and confidence, most notably with the players that should have been the team’s pillars–i.e., Randle and Pruitt…
February 18th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
So what WOULD coach K be with this team?
I can hear the wheels turning now.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Cosches can call TO’s. However, the official must respond. I have had officials screw up in situations. I have no idea what really happened at the end of the game. If you really know anything about oaching, you know that coaches of losing teams don’t spend a lot of time working on special game winning plans. The main effort is to get the team to a point where you don’t need that game winning play. If you have a poor team, what makes you think this same team would now properly execute a game winning play?
February 19th, 2008 at 7:12 am
BrooksTaylor: Thanks for the enlightenment. But, Illinois was ahead at PSU & DID foul. I’ll bet their coach was glad he had a good free throw shooter on the floor. One to tie. One to win.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:16 am
HedgeHog, I have news for you. If you have A team that loses a lot of close games,IT’S THE PLAYERS AND NOT THE COACH. The players consistently make bad decisions at the wrong time. If you think that Coach K could make this team a winner, then you probably also think that the proper horse trainer could make a plow horse a Ky Derby winner.
=
The main reason that Randle & SP were in the game at the end was for rebounding if Battle had missed the 2nd FT (they are our strongest rebounders). A timeout at midcourt would have given coach a chance to get them out of the game and get our best shooter in.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Sorry, that last anonymous post was mine
February 19th, 2008 at 8:49 am
DLM - you say a “winner”, so 1-game over .500 - yea Biff that would be a lock.
+++
close games are decided by 2-3 possessions. Coach K can easily make up for 2-3 possesions over the course of a game.
+++
You obviously can’t read so i’l try it again for you. If given this team from the start of the year: the ability to run a true “program”, ability to run more than one O and D set in a game(that is coaching - we’ve missed it for 5 years, but that is coaching my friends), ability to in-game coach, ability to understand s/w’s of your own players, ability to develop a player over the year, influence with officials, staff to prepare & coach the team - all combined easily gets this team to 20-6.
+++
Take a look at the schedule we’ve played. Outside of Duke none are actual 2nd Rd NCAA locks. Any of you really think any Big 10 team is a lock for a 2nd Rd. MSU, WI, PUR, IU - all these teams could be gone 1st or 2nd rd and it would surprise none of you. “Coaching” would get this team to be a winner.
+++
No i don’t believe a good trainer for you would make you a KYD winner - BAM blinkers are on too tight.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Hedgehog - Which of K’s assistants Amaker or Quinnipooh would like. His assistants learn several things with him. 1. Wear a navy blue business suit to all games, 2. Be sure to cross your legs right over left and left over right in harmony with K, 3. do not speak to the team unless invited by the master, 4. do not make any decisions or observations as an assistant.
*
Referring to Davis’ athleticism. Is that even a word or a creation like Majoris’ “verticality”? Looking at Randle, Davis and Alexander I think that athleticism is the most over rated term in basketball. Give me Larry Bird any day.
*
Anonymous - I think they can make these plays in practice because they know the tendencies of the other teammates. In the game the opponent reacts differently and we don’t have the BB instincts to adjust on the court. We try to force set plays oblivious to what the defense does.
*
Finally, If we can play to the wire with Dooook, Ariz, PU, Wisc, IU, MSU and Maryland, why don’t be blow TSU, Miami, PSU, Missouri and others out of the gym makeing the last 60 seconds superfluous.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Hedgehog- Read Yukon Chuck’s last couple of posts. He knows what he is talking about. Look at this Illini team. It should be losing by atleast 20 points a game to teams like Duke, Arizona, Indian, MSU, Wisconsin, etc. We have been in every game. That says alot about our coach. Like I said before, it’s not Weber’s coaching, it’s his recruiting that hurts us this year. Actually, shooting 80% at the freethrow line gives us atleast 6 more wins. Not Coach K. Wojo has no coaching experience. You like him based on Duke and Coach K’s reputation. He’s proved nothing. Everyone wants to play for Duke or NC. That has to be a pretty easy recruiting job. Last time I looked, Amaker and Snyder were ruining two good programs. I will give Coach K alot of credit for turning Duke into an elite program, but winning is alot easier to do when you get the top recruits in the country, every year. And if Coack K is such an innovator, why does he have a team that’s only chance of winning is dependent on how well they shoot the three ball?
Weber’s teams play tough man-to-man and a motion offense that moves the ball and lets everyone on the floor have scoring opportunities. It doesn’t rely on set plays. He didn’t need to run alot of different plays with the 05 team. Weber has switched to zone a few times, but this is a young team. You have to master the basics before you can add more sets. Zones are easy to beat with quick passing. I prefer man-to-man anyday. And you said we haven’t had coaching in 5 years. So why did it take you until the 5th year to complain about it? No one was on here saying Weber was a bad coach when he was winning.
Illini fan- I apologize. I did not see the PSU game. From what I heard, Illinois was down till McCamey hit the three at the end. I was referencing the other close games Illinois has lost this year.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Hedgehog? What about Pat Summitt and Dr. James Naismith? How many games would they win with our team? Would they win more or less than Coach K? Suppose that Bobby Knight got mad when he heard that he didn’t get a chance to coach this year’s Illinois team. Would you include him? Suppose he only went 19-5, would that be more or less evidence in support of your case to fire Coach Weber?
crk
February 19th, 2008 at 10:08 am
DLM and I are on the same page. All coaches donot always agree, but usually they are on the same page. I do not use the fact that I have coached high school and junior college BB for a reason for you to believe me. I just try to give the blogs who have not coached a little perspective of the coaches postion and some of the things he can and can not control. I also like to help you read through some of the garbage that comes across this blog. Example 1: HedgeHog statement, ” I knew I would have to explain it like I was talking to a 2 year old.” This wasmostly directed at me, but everyone who doesnot agree with him is included. Enough said about nHedgeHog.
Now KM is a special situation. KM has better than average basketball knowledge and like to use some stats to prove his point. Keep in mind that he uses these fact in twisted manner to prove his point. It’s like the statement: ” Here comes a red truck. The red truck is a fire-truck. So, a red trucks are fire-trucks.”
To prove his point today he uses St. Mary’s and Drake as an example of why BW can not coach. Let’s add a little more information. SIU beat both St. Mary’s 71-56 and Drake 65-62. SIU uses BW system of offense and defense. SIU uses a zone in practice so they can work on offense. SIU does not zone! I repeat, SIU does not zone! I’m not saying zones should never be used. I am saying that many top coaches do not use zones. Remember, sometime you can have all the facts abd still come up with the wrong conclusion. If you have an agenda and have all the facts you can not come up with agood conclusion. NOw add to this that we do not have all the facts. I’m sorry if I blog too much.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:15 am
ckasch - when did i say fire him? No idea how many games they would win - you tell me, you brought it up - but your answer would match mine in that it would be more then Weber.
++
Brooks - check the posts, i’ve made note of lack of coaching since 05, thats over 3 years for those that can’t count.
+++
If Weber is such an o genius, then why have his teams struggled to score the last three years. And why do we have the Dee-Chester-Demetri dribble drill at the top of key as the clock goes down every friggin game wondering what to do.
+++
They rely on 3 this year because that is their makeup this year, you play to the strengths, you adjust. You don’t just do the same crap every play, every game like Weber.
+++
You really call changing d 3x in 5
years changing it up????????????
+++
“moves the ball and lets everyone on the floor have scoring opportunities.” -uh you watching tapes of 05? that hasn’t happened in 3 years. Maybe it will in 2011….
February 19th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Next year? Tough one. I didn’t fully realize the impact loosing seniors Carter and McBride would have on this years overall success. We were not all that good last year,( but compared to this year) so I thought maybe just a little drop off that’s it, even knowing we were replacing seniors with freshman basically. I believe the lack of a decent, productive,eligable, healthy, soph/junior classes is what is hurting this team this year and likely the lack of junior/seniors out of this same said group will hurt some next year. Loosing Priutt and Randle is going to have a impact, how much, I’m scared to even speculate.I have to wonder if Carlwell and Semrau (both juniors age wise next year) will ever help us much if any? Neither can replace Pruitt or Randle. Cole, I believe, will ultimately be in the same Semrau/Carwell mold,(Pine riders)hope I’m wrong about that. Simpson(or sole recruit) will likely be a typical freshman. Obviously the job will be sophs Tiz’s and Davis’s, Alexander’s contribution will mirror this years. Man, I hope those two have an incredable off season! One thing though, the Guard situation “WILL” improve and be our strength, I gotta believe it will and I’m looking forward to that. What do you guys think? Gotta look forward to something, this winter is getting old.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:22 am
DLM, thanks for your repeated attempts to get HedgeHog off Weber’s back. Has Weber made some mistakes this year? Sure, but this team is maddeningly annoying to watch and probably to coach.
They lack basketball acumen and on the court leadership. Randle seems to lack confidence and Pruitt gets too amped up and appears more interested in his individual stats than doing what is needed to help his TEAM win. And those guys are seniors. You add this to the fact that we are short handed at guard as I stated earlier and it is no wonder we are in the current trick bag.
I have also coached before and I have talked to many coaches about the problems they encounter with their kids. HedgeHog, I will tell you that you can tell kids to do x and y and then they go out and it is as though you never had the conversation with them. This group appears to be of that iilk and I am hoping that with the experience and improvement that comes with maturity, next year will be an improvement. I don’t think it can be any worse than this year.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
POP- Tisdale won’t get doubled because there’s no TIME to double him. He takes his shot, makes his move, or passes the ball back out. He doesn’t stand there and wait for the double/triple before he decides what to do.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:31 am
What is with all the Coack K talk? What would the Bills be if Belichick was the coach? Who cares, he’s not. One down year people, Illinois is not Duke, NC, or Kansas. How do you think Michigan feels, or Minnesota, or Kentucky. Let this year go, besides, the Illini are just sandbagging to get the right matchup for a run in the BTT…wink, wink.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Any hope I had for salvaging something from this nightmare of a season went out the window with this game…
Sitting frosh? Loading up on minutes for Pruitt, Randle & Frazier? BAM is in over his head, and I wish he would just admit it and go back to a mid-major school.
We’re in for a long frustrating run here with this guy–
I’ll try to change my mindset to be happy with mediocrity? Any tips?
February 19th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
BT, no I did not think Deron was overrated. In fact, I thought he was good his freshman year. He had great court vision and sense. DMac is no Deron. The fact that he and Davis are freshman does not change the fact that I think they are overrated. I have seen too many freshmen that don’t have to use the excuse “freshmen” for not being very good. Mark my words, you will not see the improvement with them that you are hoping for and that I hope for. I very much hope I am wrong. I don’t think Carlwell is ever going to be help. I think he has turned out to be a complete flop. I didn’t see what everyone was excited about before he got hurt. I also said that Jamar was not shooting well BEFORE he got hurt. I think he can shoot well but we’ll have to see how he performs.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
catfish, you are right on about Tisdale. He would score more if the Randle, Frazier and Brock will give him the ball. I believe Randle and Brock really don’t want to see him in there instead of Pruitt. Ifyou could go back to the past games and observe this you will see what I mean. As I said a while back I have taken an interest in Tisdale. I watch him quite a bit when he is in. These 3 hardly ever get the ball into him, especially Randle. Tisdale spends to much time trying to set picks. When he does the person he is picking for, usually goes to wide and does’nt do a good job of using the picks. I wish he would do less picking and more setting up. I’m sure this is Webers idea. Pruitt isn’t quick enough to these picks. When he does they are not very good picks, which some of its not his fault. Illinois players use pick wose than some high schoolers I have coached. this team is so unfundamentally sound that they remind me of a high school team. They certainly score like one. Is this Webers fault? I’m not at his practices so I really can’t answer that. Pruitt shoots a short shot like a shot putter, he has no touch what so ever. Why hasn’t that shot been corrected? Watching Frazier, Randle and Pruitt shoot free throws is a nightmare. They all shoot the ball from their palm, not the finger tips. Watch sometime and you will see what I mean. All your great free throw shooters, stae using a small gab between your palm and basketball. All free throw videos say the same thing feel the ball on your finger tips. Why hasn’t Illinois coaches worked on technique. I don’t care how many shots you take in practice, ba technique can’t really get you better.
this team can’t seem to think for themselves and the way they are playing, Weber isn’t doing a good job of thinking for them. I hope when he does get some smarter players his coaching will improve. Dee,Daron, Luther and ect. played with basketball smarts and may have made Weber look better than he is. I believe the next 3 years will give us that answer. I’ll hold my judgement on his ability to coach for a couple of years. I hope what I feel now is wrong.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
You know just for fun to be fair here, if you wanted to argue at what point Illinois recruiting prowess began to slide so to speak maybe it would be with Selfs last “03″ class. Randle, Carter and McBride. Even though all three had a four star rating, It took Carter till his senior year.McBride did make a three or two and was a decent defender, and Randle, well. But Self did have “one” real good class here( Kruger left us with Luther)and the rest is history. That’s all Weber needs is “one” good class maybe “09″ is it.But he might just do something unusual, that is follow it up with another. He’s got a decent freshman nucleus to build on and start over, we need to give them at least another year before we start riping on em. Since the future is not here to judge and critique ad nauseam yet, it still looks pretty good actually.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
guys i have coached some bask tball before. as a coach your also a teacher. who is teaching pruitt how too shoot? got an answer brooks? he has been in this program for how long now? i know for a fact i can work with him for an hour and have shooteing his freethrows alot better. thats not bragging its a fact. some of these guys have been here 3-4 years now what have we taught them? brooks got an answer? a good coaching mind can call timeout and design a way too get a good shot. not this coaching genious. i honestly think he took this job as a bruce pearl and digger phelps request too see just how far down he can take it. as for all this talk about these great recruits coming in just remember a recruit is just that a recruit. you still have too teach them your style of play. thats what scares me.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Brooks- I don’t know if I said he was a bad coach several years ago but I would have to difer in that many did question his abilities. Maybe not 04-05 but ever since. I among others saw not only the recruiting woes on the way but some questionable coaching decisions.
*
To all- I think any coach,not just coach K could have gotten us those extra wins. My rationale is that they of course would have been smart enough to sit Chester. Him riding the pine would get us 4-5 more wins a year -EASY!!! That’s why I am not excited about next year.
*
KYM your hillarious. That time out before they even took the floor for the 2nd half was interesting to say the least. As an Illini fan, I was embarrassed. Lavin and Brent were speechless - which was the only good thing that came out of that TO.
February 20th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Basketball Jones
If you can improve Pruit’s free throw shooting in one hour, why don’t you do just that?
I agree, as they say “if you can do it,it ain’t bragging.”
Just call Pruitt up and ask him for a hour of his time.
He would be grateful
Weber would be grateful
The fans would be happier
A win-win situation. Just do it!!!! crk
February 20th, 2008 at 8:25 am
BAM sure does set the bar high - from today’s paper:
“If we find a way to win against Miami [of Ohio] or Tennessee State, we’re feeling good about ourselves.”
February 20th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Catfish - Good point about Tis…..he does something with the ball quickly instead of just standing there holding it.
=
illini gator - I also like Tisdale. He seems to be getting stronger. I saw a clip of his turn around “J” against Minny when he got banged pretty hard & he still made it. He just needs to get more of those opportunities. That area just inside the FT line has been open against zones almost all year, but Tis is probably the only one on the team who can effectively catch the ball there & shoot it or even wants to, provided someone makes the pass.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Basketball Jones, do you think that Phil Jackson or Pat Riley are bad coaches? They seemingly couldn’t get Shaq to shoot free throws well either. Some guys just don’t have it and Pruitt is one of those. Who knows whether he thinks too much or chokes at the line. Maybe it is a combo. From hearing Weber, I think they have tried everything.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Basketball Jones- Wow, you have a gift from God. You obviously have a talent that no one else in the world does. Please give Steve Kerr with the Phoenix Suns a call. I am sure he will pay you alot of money to teach Shaq how to shoot freethrows. Phil Jackson and Pat Riley, two HOF coaches couldn’t do it, but I am sure that you can. It amazes me how many “former” coaches on here think they can do a better job. It’s easy to teach a 6th grader how to properly shoot a freethrow. It’s a whole other world to teach a college player.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:48 am
DLM-I would have crawled through forty miles of broken glass just to get coach against you. It would have been an easy win!! Coaches who do not practice the “little things”, can’t take care of the big things either. Just what happened to the “Basketball IQ” of these players after high school? They have been playing since they were old enough to dribble and shoot a basketball, school ball, AAU ball, sandlot ball, etc. And they have no BBIQ? C’mon, get real. Quit blaming the players. Playing your worst free throw shooters in the last minute of a close game is just plain stupid. I don’t care if God is your best rebounder, if He can’t shoot a free throw, He should not be in the game. Likewise, if He can’t create (boy, that’s a bad one), He shouldn’t be in the game. This coach has lost a half-dozen games that he had won, and gave away because of misplaced loyalty, an inability to recognize situations and just awful in-game decisions. On a free throw situation, Brock, Tisdale and Alexander give you just as much oportunity to rebound the basketball as Pruitt. They may not be as strong, but they are quicker, with much greater leaping ability, and offensively, they can make a free throw once in a while. Even if they can’t, who knows, they haven’t been given the chance to prove it one way or the other this year.
February 20th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Brooks why have a player keep shooting with bad technique? He can practice all day and not get better. As far as Pruitt goes he should be like Shaq and not be in at the end of a game. maybe that is why those coaches are better than Weber. Pruitt will never be a good free throw shooter, because he has no touch. He can’t make a five footer with his technique. Randle, brock and Randle at least can make a 5 to 10 footer, some of the time. There must be some kind of flaw in the way they shoot free throws. I haven’t watched them like an assistant coach would. Is their jump shot technique the same . do they shoot off the palm or follow through the sam on a longer shot. They seem more like they are aiming the ball on their free throws. I don’t really have the answer, but a good assistant coach, should be able to help the latter three, there isn’t any hope for Pruitt. Brooks, the coaches in this blog are pretty knowledgable and have been though most of the problems we have seen with coaching a game. I have tried in my mind to defend Weber, but he seems to be lost out there this yesr. He has tried to over coach and he lets his emotions get in the way of commom since. I believe he was a much better coach last year. The talent isn’t that much worse this year, but his coaching is. Yelling at players, being pissy with Sampson , referees, benching certain people every time they make a mistake and not having the right players on the floor at certain times. I think he is not used to losing and is not doing the coaching job that he can do. He has lost the edge and has lost his cool several times this year. Weber hasn’t faced so much critism in his coaching career and has trouble dealing with it. He says Tisdale and Meachem are the only two putting extra time and some of the players would be better if they worked as hard as these two. Why not reward the hard workers with more playing time and bench some of the ones who don’t.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
I don’t agree with Marlin often, but I have to go with him on his “last minute of the game” analysis. Get Pruitt out. I would, however, still play God. I think He’d find a way to git r done. If not, He would send His only begotten son, Jeffrey Jordan… oh, wait, I’m getting confused here.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
ILLINIGATOR,Tisdale is a good class a h.s. player. however 7′1″ college centers rebound and block shots, not hang out by center court hopeing to shoot a 3. next year will be a team with better shooting but where is the rebounding comeing from? Tis was pushed around in highschool by guys 6′2″.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Illini gator- Everything is magnified when you are losing. Weber is a good coach. He is coaching just as well and yelling just as much as he did in 2005. It’s a lack of talent. No more. No less. Put the blame where it belongs. On Pruitt and Randle.
I’m tired of everyone thinking they know it all just because they coached at one time. I played high school ball and studied they game my entire life and that doesn’t make me an expert. Coaching a junior high team is completely different from college. Pruitt has played under the basket all of his life. He never shot the ball. He’s all dunks and put backs. No jump shot equals poor freethrow shooting. Now you can see why Weber is recruiting Tisdale, Simpson, Griffey, and JR. All big guys who can shoot the ball. No worries. We’ll all think he is a great coach again in a couple years. Off to the Carribean. Hope we upset Wisky tonight. Argue with you guys on Monday. Go Illini!
February 20th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I am curious. A question to all the present and former coaches who blog. Marlin, Yukon, Gator…ummm can’t remember who else, but please chime in. I would like to know your won/lost records, the scores, the reasons for your losses, who went on to play DIV I,II,III, Pro, and who didn’t and why. It seems like you have all the answers to Webers problems, probably encountered them many times and solved them. So, please enlighten us further with the conference, regional, sectional, and state titles along with the other info. Then when I read your tirades, I might believe some of what you are talking about.
*
Yukon…sorry to lump you in. You give a rational perspective and are respectful to those that aren’t.
*
Peace Brothers
February 20th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Wow, got any names of those 6′2″ guys who “pushed him around”? I seriously doubt you saw Tisdale play in high school. You certainly haven’t been watching him this year if you really think he’s “hanging out at center court”. Seriously, if you people are gonna criticize, at least watch the games before you offer your moronic statements.
February 20th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Brooks: You may have one of the best perspectives on the blog. Anyone who comes across as a know it all, doesnot know it all. If anyone should know better than to think they know it all is a coach or ex-coach. We have 4 to 6 ex-coaches on this blog that I am aware of. None of us ex-coaches have achieved anything near what BW has achieved. That alone should get BW some respect. BW system goes back more than 25 years. That is 25 years of success and without top talent. No NCAA Championships is a negative for some. I will tell you that no one likes playing against BW style. I do not care if he may not be able to score, play the right players, not use zones when he should or not use times correctly. You are in for war on the court. Part of what your see on the side lines with BW is a man who is fighting to get everything he can out of his players. Can you remember back when PUrdue was a load. How many years did we lost to Purdue when we had more talent? I believe we lost several times when we had more talent. I would watch those games and tell my wife I could tell who would most likely win in the first 5 minuts. It depended on how the refs was calling the game. If the refs would let Purdue play the physical defense we were in trouble. The way I remember, the games we won was because they wore down the last part of the game. I see our defense getting weaker of late and I believe it’s because BW has had to spend so much time on offense.
The above makes me think of someone getting on DLM for his comment about not taking care of the little things. DLM was just saying that you have to take care of the big problems before you deal with the smaller details. You do notspend a lot of time on the last shot of the game if you are never in the game at the end. I’m not talking about BW.
If I needed a win, DLM is not the coach on this blog I would pick. I do think I can beat or have a good chance of beating are the know it alls. But the bottom line is you are not winning the games, just helping the players to best us their talent and skills.
February 20th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
well, i have to say I am glad to learn that B. Carlwell is leaving the team and school. I went out to watch him at the Dapper Dan game at the Chicago Stadium a couple of years ago. I wanted to get a handle on his talent level and what I saw was a slow, overweight, unmotivated player who did not work hard in games. Every time I saw him after that, he did nothing to change my impression. Perhaps we will recruit another talented big man instead.
February 20th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Oh, and I’m gonna toss Rosco an “Amen” as well.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
“I will tell you that no one likes playing against BW style.”
-YC, you’re forgetting there’s been 15x this yr already that people like playing us.
++++
“You do not spend a lot of time on the last shot of the game if you are never in the game at the end.”
-We’ve lost 9 games this yr by 6 or less, so there has been a major failure to execute down the stretch.
+++
“I do think I can beat or have a good chance of beating are the know it alls.”
-YC, i sincerely don’t mean to offend you but that statement is crazy. I think you or anyone would need a thousand paramaters for a statement like that, unless you’re talking a video game.
+++
February 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
to Rosco, Ihave been coaching either football , basketball, track or baseball for over 25 years. In Iowa I have coached at a 5A school and in Illinois 2 class 2A. In Florida I have coached basketball on the ^A level and am presently coaching football at the 3 A level. I have been an assistant at Blackhawk CC anddid a grad assistantship at EIU. Overall basketball record 210- 112. I have won 10 regionals and 3 sectionals. I have not made it to state. I don’t confess to knowing everything about basketball. I have made mistakes and have been fired. If I was perfect, I would be in the NBA. You say you know a lot about basketball. I’m sure you learned a lot playing highschool ball and watching it on tv. How many coaching camps have you worked at? How many coaching clinics have you been to? I have worked ove 15 camps the past 25 years, including Illinois, Indiana, Iowa and Eastern Illinois. 4 years ago I helped at the U of F camp with Billy Donavan. The past two years I have been working at Urban Myers football camp. I have spoken at several high scool clinics. I’m sure most of the coaches who have blogged here have the same or better creditials. I didn’t play college basketball or Footbal becuase I played 3 years of minor league baseball. Back then you couldnt play college ball of any kind, because of being a professional.
Catfish you are right on about Tisdale. Here are some stats comparing him to bigdaddys Pruitt. Minutes play P 27 T 11. Blocked shots p13 t 14, As. p 22 t 7 Ft p49% t 69%. Tisdale is a freshmen and gets only a third of the playing time and Pruitt being the go to guyand a senior come on bigdaddy. I forgot T.o p27 T11. Ask any one who knows any thing about zone defenses that outsid and just inside the free throw lane are the open shots. Where does that fit Pruitts game. If our guards and forwards weren’t so blind to the inside , maybe Illinois could take advantage of a tisdale. Davis flashes the middle, but never sees the ball.
class2A schools.
February 20th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Rosco,
In less than a week I’m sure you’ll be able to get all of the info you’re looking for…once Indiana releases the names of the coaches who are on the short list to take over their bball program.
*
Never figured you to be the impatient type.
Be good.
February 20th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
ok brooks. comparing pruitt to shaq shows me how much you no about basketball. shaq has been in the nba how long now? how many championships has he been involved in or all stars games has he been in. you are right some people cant be taught. if after 4 years now and are coaches have done all they could with him and thats gotta be all anybody can do with him cause like you tell us webber is a great coach. if this couch is so good then why does he have a pler in the game at the end and were on offense and down 1 point why does this great coach have a player in the game that after 4 years of his coaching and this kid cant shoot the basketball from 10 - 15 feet. why after all this time and you know he cant shoot whys he in there? how many coaching geniouses would trot out 3 kids on the floor at the same time and know none of them can shoot the basketball? randel pruitt frazier. im probablly not a great coach like your great coach is but i have learnt the limitations of pruitt randel a frazier 12 games or so ago. if you cant see these then you must not know a thing about basketball
February 20th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
and too ckash id be glad too its really not that hard. to ken whats your definition of an nba coach? from what iv seen of them there more like big babysitters. too brooksey i guess it is easier too teach a 6th grader. i mean this is a great country when a 6 grader can learn more and do more then a college student. maybe we need more 6 graders on are team maybe we would make a freethrow then.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Gator my friend. First, I appreciate your willingness to share your background. I will guess that your head coaching jobs were in high school since you refered to yourself as an assistant at the next level. The intent of my questions was to perhaps urge those with the constant wudda, cudda, shuddas, to reflect on what exactly they have accomplished in the same field as Weber. That coaching isn’t as easy as some claim, else they would have Weber’s job.
*
Gator..I believe I have complimented you several times as I do feel that coaches bring a different perspective. Again, thanks for responding.
*
Tex…Very nice with the IU reference. Yes, I’m a patient guy, but I have to stretch my legs every now and then.
*
Peace brothers
February 20th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Illini Gator: Excellent coaching back ground. I’m not in your league.
February 21st, 2008 at 12:02 am
illini gator i have too agree with your blog. it makes a lot of sense. i have been an illini fan for a long time now through alot of bad years but i have never felt about a team or a coach like i do this one. heck iv alwaysed supported are coaches. i liked lou henson alot. i had many arguments with folks here in decatur about lou. remember here in decatur when they had there were through with lou bumper stickers? i always defended him. he was a good coach not the best recruiter but a very good x-o coach. lou tepper ron turner i supported and stood up for these coaches while they were here because they were are coach. webber has taken a program that was up and moving along pretty good and has gone down hill with it almost every year.you know guys like brooks in here want to give webber the credit for getting us to the championship game if we give him the credit for that and not the players then he should get the credit for the last couple of years now and quit blaming it on the players. we here you guys say all the time how these are just some bad players a bad team. ok whos fault is that? is it us fans? i have never seen so many empty seat in the hall before the end of a game before. i just havent been able too support webber i feel bad about that because im a big illini fan but when you here him talk and see his actions he acts like a guy who would rather be some where else. and i wont support someone who doesnt want too be here. we have had alot of teams with no more talent then we have now but they fought there butts of at home for the home fans. loseing was not an option at home. but they say a team will take on the personality of its coach. you see that and hear that alot. you know i think were gonna finish last in the big ten this year. from the national championship game too last in a weak big ten conf. in a couple years time. THINK ABOUT IT